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Thread: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Or if the Angels see Wood as a replacement for Figgins, substitute Izturis in there...anyway, the Reds unload some dollars and add some offense at shortstop. Kendrick seems to have fallen out of favor with the Angels but could blossom into an offensive threat in the NL and in GABP. Would Kendrick at second and Wood/Izturis at short would be an improvement over Phillips and Janish at short?

    The Angels might be willing to add a Phillips and his contract in order to take a step toward improving their elite team. The Reds could benefit from reducing payroll at second and adding depth/offense at short.
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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Or if the Angels see Wood as a replacement for Figgins, substitute Izturis in there...anyway, the Reds unload some dollars and add some offense at shortstop. Kendrick seems to have fallen out of favor with the Angels but could blossom into an offensive threat in the NL and in GABP. Would Kendrick at second and Wood/Izturis at short would be an improvement over Phillips and Janish at short?

    The Angels might be willing to add a Phillips and his contract in order to take a step toward improving their elite team. The Reds could benefit from reducing payroll at second and adding depth/offense at short.
    I actually thought of this same thing (Kendrick and Izturis) a few weeks back. Don't know if LAA would be interested but it would be a way to improve a little overall and save some dollars in the short term. Wood I just have no interest in I think he's likely a bust. I think Francisco would also interest them to some extent. In fact we match up so well with LAA in so many ways it would be in our best interest to explore that further.

    Izturis SS
    Kendrick 2B
    Votto 1B
    Bruce RF
    ??? LF
    Rolen 3B
    Dickerson/Stubbs CF
    Hanigan C

    A much more consistent offense and fluid lineup with no completely incompetent performers. Would the money saved allow us to pursue a big bat (Dye) to bat 5th if so it's a brilliant move.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 10-26-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Kendrick is a downgrade from Phillips and Izturis is a one year rental. I prefer the Cordero for Fuentes and Izturis or Wood idea.
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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Kendrick is a downgrade from Phillips and Izturis is a one year rental. I prefer the Cordero for Fuentes and Izturis or Wood idea.
    Fuentes isn't a downgrade from Cordero? Either way we go we are getting a lesser productive player. At least with a Phillips for Izturis and Kendrick deal we save so much more that we may have enough to afford that big bat in LF.
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    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Kendrick is a downgrade from Phillips and Izturis is a one year rental. I prefer the Cordero for Fuentes and Izturis or Wood idea.
    Defensively, Kendrick is a downgrade. Offensively, he has great potential. Monetarilry, he is very affordable at this point. Overall, he is a worthy gamble.

    Izturis is a free agent after next year, but why would he necessarily be priced out of Cincinnati? Would he command greater than Phillips-type money?
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by Spitball View Post
    Defensively, Kendrick is a downgrade. Offensively, he has great potential. Monetarilry, he is very affordable at this point. Overall, he is a worthy gamble.

    Izturis is a free agent after next year, but why would he necessarily be priced out of Cincinnati? Would he command greater than Phillips-type money?
    Absolutely not but he would cost more than most would probably care to pay him due to his position. I'm guessing here but I'm sure if he did well after a full season he could get somewhere in the 5 million per for 3 years or more range. Not a whole lot but he'll be 30 and he's not "special enough" in any one area where many would want to pay him. He'll keep you well above replacement level in every aspect but he's not the type of guy who you'd want to commit a lot of money too.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 10-27-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    I also prefer swinging a deal around Cordero-Fuentes that could be expanded to net us Izturis at SS. Why I would "key" it around closers instead of second basemen?

    1. We've got many potential closer candidates knocking at the door (Masset, Burton, Bray, Ondrusek, Del Rosario), but no obvious heir apparents to succeed Phillips, or Kendrick for that matter, at 2B.

    2. Reports suggest the Angels are looking to upgrade at closer and have begun to focus on that as an off-season priority, so if we want to swing a deal, we best be talking their language.

    3. For a small-market team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade, we're allocating too great a share of our limited resources for a closer. Cordero is among the elite closers working today. He's highly valuable to us, but potentially far more valuable to a team like the Angels. While we would take an undeniable hit giving up Cordero for Fuentes, that's a sacrifice we can endure if the return includes Izturis. He's not only a legitimate lead-off threat, but also a better all-around SS than the parade of talents -- Gonzalez, Hairston, Janish, Keppinger, Rosales, Sutton -- we've seen the past two years.

    Yes, Izturis would only be a one-year rental, but if his play warrants it, we can pony up what it will take to keep him in the fold for 2011. There's a level of uncertainty attached to that, but there are also worse scenarios -- like plugging Patterson, Taveras or Hairston atop the order and thinking we had our offense set as far as fielding credible tablesetters.

    Our bullpen is a strength, we have a solid if not stunning rotation, we have coalescing offensive power, but our tablesetters still seem to have trouble getting to first base. Time to rob Peter to pay Paul.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Fuentes isn't a downgrade from Cordero? Either way we go we are getting a lesser productive player. At least with a Phillips for Izturis and Kendrick deal we save so much more that we may have enough to afford that big bat in LF.
    Fuentes is a downgrade, but moving Cordero's contract to upgrade the position player side is a step in the right direction. Not sure how much it helps to downgrade 2B to upgrade SS for one year. Both Phillips and Janish are better defensively than Kendrick and Izturis. Downgrading to adequate on defense is fine when its turning an overall hole into a contributing spot like the the Izturis/Janish switch would be, but I don't like the idea of dealing off Phillips for Kendrick. It weakens the positional side. Phillips plays every day and is an elite defender with power while Kendrick hasn't had a season topping 400 PAs. The offense is similar though I think Kendrick might end up outproducing Phillips in GABP, but Kendrick is only 2 years younger and is heading to the point in his career where his cost will also soar with arbitration. I do think that dealing Phillips contract might be something that the team will want to do at some point, but I don't get it when the primary return is an offense first guy at 2B who doesn't put up elite production and doesn't play every day. I'd need to know a bit more about Kendrick's defense, but my impression is that he's a Todd Walker type who can hit with a decent (but not great) OPS in the .750 to .825 range, but is only adequate at best at 2B. It seems the Reds already have a couple of those in Sutton, Frazier and Valaika. Why deal Phillips for one when the only kicker is one year of Izturis? If Kendrick is a better defender than that, I might be willing to re-think, but I don't really like the Todd Walker type at 2B. I think its still a defense first position. The trick is to get a defender who can hit a little like the Reds already have.

    As for the money, there is some decent savings in 2011 and 2012, but in 2010, Phillips is signed for $6.75 Million while Kendrick will make $2 to $3 Million in Arbitration. The difference will pay for Izturis and little else, which is similar to what the difference between Cordero and Fuentes will provide.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-27-2009 at 05:35 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  10. #9
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Kendrick has an OBP .002 points higher than his batting average. He never met a pitch he didn't like.

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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Kendrick has an OBP .002 points higher than his batting average. He never met a pitch he didn't like.
    Brandon Phillips isn't exactly selective up there.

    It's a pretty interesting comparison:

    Kendrick

    Code:
    Year                      Age            Tm            Lg   G   PA   AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB  SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+  TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB   Pos Awards
    2006                       22           LAA            AL  72  283  267  25  76 21  1  4  30  6  0  9  44 .285 .314 .416 .730   87 111   5   4  0  3   2        34/D5
    2007                       23           LAA            AL  88  353  338  55 109 24  2  5  39  5  4  9  61 .322 .347 .450 .796  108 152  15   4  1  1   2          4/D
    2008                       24           LAA            AL  92  361  340  43 104 26  2  3  37 11  4 12  58 .306 .333 .421 .754   97 143   8   4  1  4   3            4
    2009                       25           LAA            AL 105  400  374  61 109 21  3 10  61 11  4 20  71 .291 .334 .444 .778  100 166   8   4  2  0   1          4/D
    4 Seasons           4 Seasons     4 Seasons     4 Seasons 357 1397 1319 184 398 92  8 22 167 33 12 50 234 .302 .333 .434 .767   99 572  36  16  4  8                8
    162 Game Avg.   162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162  634  599  83 181 42  4 10  76 15  5 23 106 .302 .333 .434 .767   99 260  16   7  2  4                4
    Phillips

    Code:
    Year                      Age            Tm            Lg   G   PA   AB   R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+   TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB  Pos Awards
    2002                       21           CLE            AL  11   36   31   5   8   3  1  0   4   0  0   3   6 .258 .343 .419 .762  105   13   0   1  1  0   0           4
    2003                       22           CLE            AL 112  393  370  36  77  18  1  6  33   4  5  14  77 .208 .242 .311 .553   48  115  12   3  5  1   0          *4
    2004                       23           CLE            AL   6   24   22   1   4   2  0  0   1   0  2   2   5 .182 .250 .273 .523   40    6   1   0  0  0   0          /4
    2005                       24           CLE            AL   6    9    9   1   0   0  0  0   0   0  0   0   4 .000 .000 .000 .000 -100    0   0   0  0  0   0        /4D6
    2006                       25           CIN            NL 149  587  536  65 148  28  1 17  75  25  2  35  88 .276 .324 .427 .751   88  229  19   6  4  6   3        *4/6
    2007                       26           CIN            NL 158  702  650 107 187  26  6 30  94  32  8  33 109 .288 .331 .485 .816  105  315  26  12  2  5   4 *4/6 MVP-22
    2008                       27           CIN            NL 141  609  559  80 146  24  7 21  78  23 10  39  93 .261 .312 .442 .754   92  247  13   5  0  6   6   *4     GG
    2009                       28           CIN            NL 153  644  584  78 161  30  5 20  98  25  9  44  75 .276 .329 .447 .776  100  261  21   6  2  8   3          *4
    8 Seasons           8 Seasons     8 Seasons     8 Seasons 736 3004 2761 373 731 131 21 94 383 109 36 170 457 .265 .312 .430 .742   89 1186  92  33 14 26              16
    162 Game Avg.   162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162  661  608  82 161  29  5 21  84  24  8  37 101 .265 .312 .430 .742   89  261  20   7  3  6               4
    Kendrick seems to make more contact and hit for more power than BP. He'd probably hit for even more power at GABP. Kendrick's never gotten a full season of ABs and his glove isn't going to be as good as BP's so those are chances one takes. However, I'm guessing he's still "cheap" for a couple of years and would be productive for the Reds "as-is."

    For me, it's a lot more enticing than I thought it would be at first glance, especially if it can also solve for SS.
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    If it solves SS for 2010, the drop-off between Kendrick and Phillips is negligible. The problem is leather, in that Phillips flashes a gold glove and Kendrick's is more of the garden variety. Izturis plays about the same as well and isn't getting any younger.

    Both are more willing to take a walk and have good contact bats, which should translate well to Cincinnati's home park. But, with Figgins a free agent, I doubt the Angels would make this move unless they're sold on Wood at SS (which doesn't appear to be the case) or want someone else for that position.
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    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    The Angels are covered at SS with Aybar, but a departure by free-agent Figgins would leave them short-handed at 3B. Wood can play either SS or 3B, but if he can't get his MLB batting average above the Mendoza Line, he'll wash out soon enough.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Fuentes is a downgrade, but moving Cordero's contract to upgrade the position player side is a step in the right direction. Not sure how much it helps to downgrade 2B to upgrade SS for one year. Both Phillips and Janish are better defensively than Kendrick and Izturis. Downgrading to adequate on defense is fine when its turning an overall hole into a contributing spot like the the Izturis/Janish switch would be, but I don't like the idea of dealing off Phillips for Kendrick. It weakens the positional side. Phillips plays every day and is an elite defender with power while Kendrick hasn't had a season topping 400 PAs. The offense is similar though I think Kendrick might end up outproducing Phillips in GABP, but Kendrick is only 2 years younger and is heading to the point in his career where his cost will also soar with arbitration. I do think that dealing Phillips contract might be something that the team will want to do at some point, but I don't get it when the primary return is an offense first guy at 2B who doesn't put up elite production and doesn't play every day. I'd need to know a bit more about Kendrick's defense, but my impression is that he's a Todd Walker type who can hit with a decent (but not great) OPS in the .750 to .825 range, but is only adequate at best at 2B. It seems the Reds already have a couple of those in Sutton, Frazier and Valaika. Why deal Phillips for one when the only kicker is one year of Izturis? If Kendrick is a better defender than that, I might be willing to re-think, but I don't really like the Todd Walker type at 2B. I think its still a defense first position. The trick is to get a defender who can hit a little like the Reds already have.

    As for the money, there is some decent savings in 2011 and 2012, but in 2010, Phillips is signed for $6.75 Million while Kendrick will make $2 to $3 Million in Arbitration. The difference will pay for Izturis and little else, which is similar to what the difference between Cordero and Fuentes will provide.
    Touche' I guess I thought BP's deal jumped up higher than that this coming season. And I agree with you on the whole thing if we have to have mediocre defense there also. I wasn't sure about Kendrick's glove so I took a look at Tango's fan report from the end of last season and he does seem to be rather mediocre there, granted it's just a fans perception but I trust the fans to get in the general neighborhood of ones skills and he doesn't really seem to have much defensive worth.

    Tango fan report
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    Re: Phillips for Kendrick and Wood???

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    The Angels are covered at SS with Aybar, but a departure by free-agent Figgins would leave them short-handed at 3B. Wood can play either SS or 3B, but if he can't get his MLB batting average above the Mendoza Line, he'll wash out soon enough.
    Duh. I meant 2B or 3B (which could open the door for either Frazier or Francisco as an attractive trading chit.
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