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Thread: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

  1. #1
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    I know that Holliday is a free agent and can't be traded, this could happen in theory.

    Assume that it will take a 5 year 100M contract to get Holliday to sign with the Reds. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but that's about what I am guessing it would take with Boras as his agent.

    If the Reds trade Harang and Cordero, they will save $39.5M over the next two years. That almost covers Holliday's salary over the next two years. This would give the Reds two years to build a roster that could afford Holliday for the next three years, or possibly trade him after two years.

    I think both Cordero and Harang can be traded without the Reds adding any cash, if no significant talent comes over to the Reds in the deals. They should be able to get a decent #5 starter and middle reliever, for them, which would fill the holes created by their trade. (Middle reliever replaces Massett or Burton, or Rhodes, or Fisher, or whoever becomes their closer)

    But the key is that they then have the money to sign Holliday.

    So the team would look something like this next year:

    Hanigan
    Votto
    Phillips
    Rolen
    Janish
    Holliday
    Stubbs/Dickerson
    Bruce

    Stubbs/Dickerson
    Janish (sigh)
    Votto
    Holliday
    Bruce
    Rolen
    Phillips
    Hanigan

    Cueto
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Maloney
    5th starter via trade or FA

    Massett
    Rhodes
    Fisher
    Burton
    Herrera
    Owings

    They would be a little light in the starting pitching department, but Volquez comes back for 2011, and Leake and Wood should be ready by then if not sooner. And they would have a very solid offense and defense.

    Anyway, just a thought.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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  3. #2
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    absolutely.

    but i don't think it will happen.

  4. #3
    Member LawFive's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    In a second. But I don't see any takers for Harang after his performance the last two years, when combined with his salary.
    The seven most magic words in all the land...
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  5. #4
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    It'd be awfully hard for me to not accept that trade because it'd be an insane starting lineup:
    1. CF Stubbs
    2. 3B Rolen
    3. 1B Votto
    4. LF Holliday
    5. RF Bruce
    6. 2B Phillips
    7. SS Whatshisface
    8. C Whocares

    However, I shudder at the thought of this rotation to start the year:
    SP Arroyo
    SP Cueto
    SP Bailey
    SP Owings
    SP Maloney

    That's also not to mention a big asset in the bullpen being gone. I think this hypothetical trade would help the team but not as much as people think.

  6. #5
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    Holiday no. Halladay, sign me up.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    I like the Halladay plan. No for Holliday, because it simply blocks Votto or Alonso, both of whom either are/will be better than Holliday. I do, however, like the salary savings.

  8. #7
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Holiday no. Halladay, sign me up.
    tomato, tamoto....

    The question is, "Does the Reds front office have the guts to trade two very productive and popular players for next to nothing, in order to free payroll space to get that big bat/arm (5-6 win player) that this teams needs to compete?
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  9. #8
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    It'd be awfully hard for me to not accept that trade because it'd be an insane starting lineup:
    1. CF Stubbs
    2. 3B Rolen
    3. 1B Votto
    4. LF Holliday
    5. RF Bruce
    6. 2B Phillips
    7. SS Whatshisface
    8. C Whocares

    However, I shudder at the thought of this rotation to start the year:
    SP Arroyo
    SP Cueto
    SP Bailey
    SP Owings
    SP Maloney

    That's also not to mention a big asset in the bullpen being gone. I think this hypothetical trade would help the team but not as much as people think.
    I think you are right, it's not as much as most people would think, but I think it's enough to be worth it.

    My calculations make Holliday around a 2 win addition in this scenario.

    I think he is worth 5 wins over the Reds current LF situation. He'd be a 6 win player in GABP, and currently, Gomes/Dickerson are about a 1 win platoon.

    Harang and Cordero are combined 3 win players at most. Assuming that they are replaced with replacement level talent, that makes the trade a two win deal for the Reds. If they can get a 1 win player for each player, or replace them each with 1 win player, then the trade is s 4 win addition.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  10. #9
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Assume that it will take a 5 year 100M contract to get Holliday to sign with the Reds. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but that's about what I am guessing it would take with Boras as his agent.

    If the Reds trade Harang and Cordero, they will save $39.5M over the next two years. That almost covers Holliday's salary over the next two years. This would give the Reds two years to build a roster that could afford Holliday for the next three years, or possibly trade him after two years.

    I think both Cordero and Harang can be traded without the Reds adding any cash, if no significant talent comes over to the Reds in the deals.
    No, but I would like Jocketty to trade them for some other pieces that would make a difference to the Reds money and talent wise. I am just biased against 5 year or long term contracts because of factors that can hurt the small market or less financially capable teams.

    I want him to restructure his player talent resources and finances, meaning contractual obligations to bring back talent that can make serious contributions and have a long term positive effect with reduced risk for that financially strapped team.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 11-01-2009 at 08:29 PM.


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