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Thread: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/1...-be-dealt.html

    Add the Reds to the list of teams that are slashing, rather than spending, this off-season. Fanhouse's Ed Price and Jeff Fletcher are reporting that Cincinnati is looking to cut their payroll from $71MM in 2009 to between the $65-$70MM range next season. While it may not sound like much of a reduction, Cot's Baseball Contracts lists the Reds as owing just under $66MM to just ten players for next season, leaving little room to fill out the rest of the roster.

    Lagging attendance figures are to blame for the Reds' financial cutbacks. Price and Fletcher noted that attendance at the Great American Ballpark dropped by more than 15 percent from 2008 to 2009. General manager Walt Jocketty was quoted in the piece as saying, "We're going to probably have less to spend this year than we have in the past...It just depends on how [ticket] sales go this offseason."

    If Cincinnati does make a deal, the likeliest candidates to be moved are second baseman Brandon Phillips (owed just under $7MM in 2010), and pitchers Aaron Harang ($12.5MM) and Bronson Arroyo ($12.25MM). Phillips, with his .452 slugging percentage over the last four seasons, is the most attractive candidate to other clubs given his power from the second base position and reasonable contract. Harang and Arroyo are both coming off decent years themselves, but Price and Fletcher speculate that their bigger contract numbers would require the Reds to absorb a chunk of their salaries if traded.

    One star player who looks to be staying in Cincinnati is closer Francisco Cordero, who Price and Fletcher say the club "would prefer to keep" despite the $25MM he's owed through 2011. A very intriguing trade chip could be young slugger Joey Votto, if the Reds wanted to make room for star prospect Yonder Alonso at first base. Another team could be convinced to take on a bad contract if it meant getting Votto, who isn't eligible for free agency until after the 2013 season.

    Edit:
    I want to add, that I have no idea how reputable Fanhouse.com is. I have no idea what their reporting record is, or if this report is accurate. In fact, this report does counter what has been previously reported. All the beat writers have reported that the Reds would love to move Cordero and he is the first one that is always offered. This report says the exact opposite. So please take with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by TheNext44; 11-10-2009 at 11:52 PM.
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    "The losing stops now!" -BCast on his firing of Wayne Krvisky.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Does not sound good, but I have read reports from nearly every other team that's not the Red Sox or Yankees, that they will be slashing or freezing payroll. MLBTR even reported that the Dodgers might not have enough payflex to resign Randy Wolf. I think we will be surprised at what most Free Agents sign for this off season.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    If the Reds get rid of Brandon Phillips and Aaron Harang next year, they can kiss any chance at competing goodby.

    I can understand not wanting to take on additional payroll and I can even get cutting some payroll, but the cut should be to Cordero and/or Arroyo, whose numbers are a bit easier to replace. I'd personally like to even keep Arroyo, but Cordero (who has been very good) is a guy I would look to move for flex.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Doesn't this fly in the face of all of those reports about how nobody wanted Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero over the summer?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Doesn't this fly in the face of all of those reports about how nobody wanted Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero over the summer?
    It probably means the Reds will either a.) trade for fewer prospects and/or b.) will pay some of the salary to clear some space on the books.

    both options are troubling and scream the reds will not be very competitive next year.

    Also...granted, this number was at the end of the 2009 season, but the average team payroll was in the range of $88-89M for what it's worth.
    Last edited by fearofpopvol1; 11-11-2009 at 12:25 AM.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    If the Reds get rid of Brandon Phillips and Aaron Harang next year, they can kiss any chance at competing goodby.

    I can understand not wanting to take on additional payroll and I can even get cutting some payroll, but the cut should be to Cordero and/or Arroyo, whose numbers are a bit easier to replace. I'd personally like to even keep Arroyo, but Cordero (who has been very good) is a guy I would look to move for flex.
    Just to get the math right, in order to get to even the lowest estimate, $65M, the Reds only need to trade one of those guys, not two of them, and if they trade anyone other than Phillips, they would be able to add on payroll after that trade, assuming the other team took the whole salary. Or the Reds would get back decent talent if they only had to take on half of their salary.

    It's not as bad as they are making it out to be, and not all that different from what has been previously reported.

    My take is that no one, not even Cast knows that the payroll for next season will be at this point. If season ticket sales are very slow, than they might slash it down as far as $65M, or if they are strong, they will keep payroll close to last season's $71M. Most likely it will be somewhere in between.
    Here's the big quote from that article:

    "We're going to probably have less to spend this year than we have in the past," Jocketty told FanHouse. "It just depends on how [ticket] sales go this offseason."
    However, all reports are that nearly all teams are slashing payroll, which means free agents will be cheaper, and most importantly, many teams will be non-tendering decent talent because of payroll, which mean more options, which means even lower salaries.

    So it will be easier for the Reds to fill holes, even with a lower payroll. I think that they are being smart by trying to get rid of big contracts to give them more flexibility.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Doesn't this fly in the face of all of those reports about how nobody wanted Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero over the summer?
    Fly in the face? I think it actually corroborates it. No one wanted those players because it meant taking on their salaries, and that was only possible if the Reds absorbed much of it. I think this actually fits right in line with that thinking.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    TBH, I would be happy if the Reds could move all 3 as long as they spent the money efficiently.
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    And as far as attendance goes... Ownership is going to have to invest by building a winning team to pull the fans back in, not the other way around...
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    And as far as attendance goes... Ownership is going to have to invest by building a winning team to pull the fans back in, not the other way around...
    +1

    Lets see. The Reds already have a low payroll. They have a fair number of decent or good players but several holes to fill. Other teams are gutting payroll and there will be lots of bargains on the market. So what do the Reds do? Cut payroll. Bob Castellini is just as bad an owner as Lindner was.
    .

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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    "The losing stops now!" -BCast on his firing of Wayne Krvisky.
    I am sorry, if the slashing starts, Mr. C is a HUGE FREAKIN BLOCKHEAD...I am just about done with the Reds and baseball.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    +1

    Lets see. The Reds already have a low payroll. They have a fair number of decent or good players but several holes to fill. Other teams are gutting payroll and there will be lots of bargains on the market. So what do the Reds do? Cut payroll. Bob Castellini is just as bad an owner as Lindner was.
    I have a feeling that SpringFields was right when he said that Linder has more control of the team than we think. The fact that Cast is always meeting with the minority owners when ever a payroll addition decision is made strongly suggests this situation. I have a feeling this was part of Linder's agreement to sell the Reds, that he would still have some say over the finances.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    I have a feeling that SpringFields was right when he said that Linder has more control of the team than we think. The fact that Cast is always meeting with the minority owners when ever a payroll addition decision is made strongly suggests this situation. I have a feeling this was part of Linder's agreement to sell the Reds, that he would still have some say over the finances.
    Castellini's group owns 70% of the franchise, and the previous group of like 3-5 owners from Linder's ownership has the remaining 30%. It's my understanding that the rest of the group would still have to approve the budget, but just simply would not have to OK specific personnel decisions within whatever parameters were set.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Fanhouse Reports Reds To Slash Payroll

    On the plus side, at least we're only paying over $5M to Willy Taveras and Mike Lincoln next year. What would we do if we did have them....
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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