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View Poll Results: Dick Wagner or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era. Which was worst?

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  • Dick Wagner

    22 59.46%
  • Jim Bowden/John Allen

    15 40.54%
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Thread: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

  1. #1
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    Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    I was wondering which was the worst administration during the last 30 years of the Reds?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Bowden was still worse......but I blame Marge more than anything for destroying a really good farm/scouting system.

    Dick might have been one but he at least understood the importance of good scouting/player development.

  4. #3
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    There are many folks here who are not old enough to remember the Wagner era. It was ugly.
    /r/reds

  5. #4
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    I do remember it well. I had the Reds Alert/Report to guide me through the whole debacle. They actually had the No. 1 team Batting Average through May and yet 2nd to last in runs beacuse they never walked or hit for any power at all....yet I thought they could not be that bad.

    However within a few years that farm system brought on another great crop of young players...which is something this organization has lacked since that time.

  6. #5
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    I think Wagner should win the vote based on the 1981-82 off-season alone. He took a team that had the best record in MLB in '81 and converted it to a team that went 61-101 the next year. It wasn't just first-to-worst in a division; it was first-to-worst in all of MLB. That was quite an accomplishment.

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

  7. #6
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    The trickle down theory works best in this game. It starts at the top. Therefore once the game passed Marges pocketbook by and then landed in the lap of a guy who made is first buck in the depression the Reds were screwed.

    Dick Wagner was crappy talent evaluator, but a good businessman. During his era the Reds still had a chance as shown by how short their 80's lag was and how quick they were able to get back in the game.

    Marge and Bowden (who knew next to nothing about anything but batting) together with Lindner (who loved to make $1.10 out of $1) created a gap that has become almost impossible to get across in todays game.

    Wagner was bad, but the other group has been worse.

  8. #7
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    In the offseason of 1981 Wagner made two of the worst trades ever made by a GM. he traded Ray knight for Cesar Cedeno who was washed up and then traded George Foster to the Mets for three jokes. Alex Trevino was the man Wagner coveted and he was the Mets 2nd string catcher on a last place team.They refused to try to sign Griffey and he was traded for nothing but he was lost anyway.He also traded Joe Nolan who was a good hitting catcher to make room for Trevino who couldn't hit or play defense. Now after that I forgot what two disasters he did in 1978 by letting Pete walk and Firing Sparky. As far as him being a good business man I never bought into that scenerio.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

  9. #8
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    As far as him being a good business man I never bought into that scenerio.
    He ran the business for the Reds all through the 70's, he had something to do with it. Despite his horrible baseball talent knowledge.

  10. #9
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Aaaargh! I voted before reading the op! I voted for Bowden/Allen, because I preferred them to Wagner, and the poll was worded the other way.

    During the Wagner era, I cut out a Tank McNamara cartoon featuring a GM who was being accused of collusion. When asked how he could trade his talent for nothing, the wide-eyed GM replied, "But gee, I got a couple of cat's eyes and a really nice steelie!" or something of that ilk.

    The sell-out happened when I was living in Australia, longing for real baseball again. I returned home in August '82.

    Awful.

  11. #10
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Wagner had the difficult task of taking over a great team after its run was over and its star players were all wanting to cash in on the rising salaries immediately after free agency changed all the rules in the game. I'm not really a fan, but most of what Wagner was villified for back then is fairly routine stuff today.

    Bowden's transgressions and run in Washington make me think he would have failed on his own, but its really hard to tell because the Schott ownership pretty much tainted every aspect of the organization during his tenure here.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #11
    Member LINEDRIVER's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    My vote goes to Dick Wagner. That was a brutal era. An absolute debacle.

    In 1982, only 3 Reds had at least 50 RBI's. Danny Driessen led the club with 17 HR's. Bench hit 13. Nobody else hit double figures. Pitcher Mario Soto won 14 games, nobody else hit double figures. W/L record 61-101 for least place in the West Division.

    In 1983, Gary Redus hit the most HR's with 17. Bench, Esasky, and Driessen each hit 12. Ronnie Oester led the team with 58 RBI's. 3 guys in the 50's. Mario Sota was the star of the pitching staff with his 17 wins. The only other guy to hit double figures in wins? Joe Price with 10. W/L record 74-88 for last place in the West Division.

  13. #12
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He ran the business for the Reds all through the 70's, he had something to do with it. Despite his horrible baseball talent knowledge.
    The Reds had the best team in baseball in the 70's.Anyone could have made money with that team.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

  14. #13
    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Dick Wagner created a slight recession. Marge/Bowden/Allen/Linder have created a full-blown depression.

  15. #14
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    The Reds had the best team in baseball in the 70's.Anyone could have made money with that team.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  16. #15
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Wagner Or Jim Bowden/John Allen Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by vic715 View Post
    The Reds had the best team in baseball in the 70's.Anyone could have made money with that team.
    True, but evidently you need the best team in baseball to make money in baseball if your team is in Cincinnati.

    As bad as Wagner was the Reds bounced back quick, they're still drowning because of Bowden/Schott/Lindner.

    I'm more of the opinion that the Reds approach to free agency had more to do with Wagner's tenure than anything else.

    The other group just spun their wheels.


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