Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 45

Thread: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,593

    Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    The Ms signed Wilson to a 2 year $10M deal. The guy is regarded as a great defensive SS. His OPS+ for the last five years: 74 77 106 76 74. His career OPS+ is 78. He will be 32 opneing day.

    I thought ths contract was terrible for the Ms. However a columinst at ESPN feels it is a good deal: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...ense-worth-big . In the reponses to the article a poster states that fangraphs valued Wilson's 2009 season at $8.5M.

    It is my understanding that Janish's defensive stats are very very good (in a relatively small sample size). If Janish can OPS+ 75 he seems like a Wilson clone. I thought a defensive whiz at SS who can only muster a 75 OPS+ was a utility infielder/defensive sub but apparently I am wrong.

    thoughts?
    .

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,815

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    I've always thought that Jack Wilson was overrated.

  4. #3
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,505

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Paul Janish at league minimum is a steal relative to Jack Wilson at $5 mil.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #4
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    in tornado alley
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Code:
    Season	Team	Batting	Fielding	Replacement	Positional	RAR	WAR	Dollars	Salary
    	
     
    2008	Reds	-6.5	-1.8	       3.0	        1.8	        -3.6	        -0.4	    ($1.6)	 
    2009	Reds	-14.2	12.0	       9.7	        4.0	        11.5	        1.1	         $5.2
    that is Janish's value from FanGraphs. Just over 5 million. Only over a 592 innings played sample size but Janaish still managed to pull an 11.7 UZR (24.6UZR/150)

    I'm ok with Janish for league minimum playing short. Find an upgrade in LF and let everyone hit how they are capable and the blackhole in the lineup can stay. The Reds will have the best defense in the league up the middle. Janish, BP, and Stubbs

    Also judging from WJ's strength as a GM if he picks up a SS, we will all watch a 36 year old Tejada stumble over the infield for the season while paying him 5 million for the opportunity. Oh and that is not a Free agent pickup. He will probably trade Leake for him in May...

    My vote Janish stays, find a real upgrade in LF/C.
    Last edited by thatcoolguy_22; 11-15-2009 at 02:20 AM.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  6. #5
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,593

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Code:
    Season	Team	Batting	Fielding	Replacement	Positional	RAR	WAR	Dollars	Salary
    	
     
    2008	Reds	-6.5	-1.8	       3.0	        1.8	        -3.6	        -0.4	    ($1.6)	 
    2009	Reds	-14.2	12.0	       9.7	        4.0	        11.5	        1.1	         $5.2
    that is Janish's value from FanGraphs. Just over 5 million. Only over a 592 innings played sample size but Janaish still managed to pull an 11.7 UZR (24.6UZR/150)

    I'm ok with Janish for league minimum playing short. Find an upgrade in LF and let everyone hit how they are capable and the blackhole in the lineup can stay. The Reds will have the best defense in the league up the middle. Janish, BP, and Stubbs

    Also judging from WJ's strength as a GM if he picks up a SS, we will all watch a 36 year old Tejada stumble over the infield for the season while paying him 5 million for the opportunity. Oh and that is not a Free agent pickup. He will probably trade Leake for him in May...

    My vote Janish stays, find a real upgrade in LF/C.
    i find this fascinating. if Janish's value is $5M then why the all the ORG anguish over the SS position? is it that we are too focused on offense?

    heck he might even improve a bit with the bat. according to this data Janish at close to league minimum is a bargain.
    .

  7. #6
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,791

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I've always thought that Jack Wilson was overrated.
    Wise thought.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,827

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    I don't know that Wilson has been overrated...he has been an average to above average at SS each year based on total value for his position. Wilson's stick has been and will always be better than Janish's, even though Janish's defense has been a tad better than Wilson's.

    I think the M's made a fair deal for him.

  9. #8
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,346

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    I think Wilson's a fine defensive SS and he always hit well against the Reds. But he gets hurt a lot and doesn't seem to hit well against anyone else.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  10. #9
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,606

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    I fail to see a difference between Wilson and Janish other than their paycheck. I'm glad we have the cheaper one for the same production.

  11. #10
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    I swear I was preparing a similar post. In my preliminary research, I found that Wilson has a better bat (it would be hard to have a worse one than PJ). However, I think the gloves are comparable. Wilson does seem to get hurt a lot. I did read many comments on the Wilson deal that were of the "Mariners can't get to the playoffs with a bat like Wilson's can they?" ilk.

    Pretty interesting. Give Janish a bit of a track record and would you pay $5mm/year for his production?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #11
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Wilson has had much more time to develop as a hitter, than Janish. I don't know if Janish will ever hit much, but at this point, I would much rather have what Janish brings to the table today and his potential than Wilson's contract and injury history.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  13. #12
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    in tornado alley
    Posts
    1,756

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Here's an interesting comparison

    Janish 1.1 WAR 400k salary
    Francisco 1.5 WAR 12M salary


    I like Janish more and more everyday. Very under appreciated player.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    The last team to win the World Series with a bat as poor as Janish in it? St. Louis' Yadier Molina.

    Last middle infielder? Pokey Reese.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  15. #14
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,372

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    The last team to win the World Series with a bat as poor as Janish in it? St. Louis' Yadier Molina.

    Last middle infielder? Pokey Reese.
    Pokey had 1 ab in the WS in 2004, he was not a starter.

  16. #15
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,647

    Re: Jack Wilson vs Paul Janish

    Janish's '09 WAR is completely dependent upon the estimate of his defensive value based upon less than 600 innings. He simply hasn't logged enough defensive innings to be considered a true +25 defender. In fact, it's very unlikely that he is a true +25 defender.

    In other words there is a great deal of uncertainty about Janish's value and it's assuming a lot to think he could be a league average starting shortstop.

    On the other hand, the Ms are paying something approaching market rate for a a guy that is almost a lock to be something like a league average shortstop. They made a short term commitment at a below market value price. It's not a steal but it's a good enough value to mitigate the risk. They got him for 2 years for just a little more than picking up his 1 yr option would've cost. Again, not wildly exciting but a check off the list nonetheless. Though not really all that sexy, they've upgraded at an important position with a legitimate starter.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25