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View Poll Results: Who is better, Brady or Manning>

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  • Peyton Manning

    58 84.06%
  • Tom Brady

    11 15.94%
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Thread: Brady or Manning?

  1. #61
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Bellichick just wanted to jam it up the Colts arse. His ego got in the way of making a good football decision. I love it! He got what he deserved. You can't give Peyton Manning the ball on the 29 yard line with 2 minutes to go, needing a TD when he has scored on two consecutive drives and is wearing out the defense. You got to make him go the length of the field; gives the defense more margin for error and Manning less margin for error. 4th and 2 with 2 minutes left in the biggest game so far during the year? Throw out the stats and bring in the heart! Patriots are 0% on the year converting stupid decisions into a positive outcome on the year to this point. Why make excuses for this guy anyway?

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  3. #62
    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    What a great win by the Peytons (that's what I call 'em)! Belichick makes me laugh.
    Go Colts!

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  4. #63
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    I think it was a gutsy but stupid call. Giving Manning 30 yards with a time out with a little over 2 minutes left is suicidal. Giving him the ball in that situation with 60-70 yards to go is dangerous but there's a better chance of a fumble or an interception with that far to go.
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  5. #64
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'll let advanced NFL stats.com speak for me. The chances of them getting the 2 yards plus the chance they could stop the Colts from scoring from 30 yards were greater than the chances of stopping the Colts from 65 yards.
    That's before you factor in Peyton Manning, night game, tired Patriots defense.
    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009...-vs-colts.html
    It should now be pointed out that the guy that runs that site, has now admitted his numbers are not just 4th down, but also includes 3rd down statistics on that same yardage because 4th downs "are rare."

    So the statistics you're referencing for 4th down conversion likelihood are tainted a bit.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #65
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Huh, that's stupid. I hadn't seen that.

    In any event as I said, I can see the rationale for the call. I just wouldn't have done it.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Also I think BB thinks Manning is going to engineer a scoring drive no matter what. Wouldn't you rather have a chance to get the ball back (only having 20+ yards to go) than getting the ball back with little time on the clock (going 70 yards to score)?
    Bucksfan poses the more interesting question to me--if Belicheck thought that Manning was going to engineer a winning drive regardless, then why didn't he instruct the Pats defense to let Indy score on the first play and get the ball back with ~1:50 left on the clock? That move would put the game back in Brady's hands w/ one timeout, where a field goal wins the game.

    That would have been the real hubristic move at that point in the game, and a smart one too.

  8. #67
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
    Bucksfan poses the more interesting question to me--if Belicheck thought that Manning was going to engineer a winning drive regardless, then why didn't he instruct the Pats defense to let Indy score on the first play and get the ball back with ~1:50 left on the clock? That move would put the game back in Brady's hands w/ one timeout, where a field goal wins the game.

    That would have been the real hubristic move at that point in the game, and a smart one too.
    From a mere strategy standpoint, in a game of strat-o-matic or Madden, that might make sense. From a psychological standpoint, that's a terrible idea. You've already kicked your D in the teeth once by not punting and telling them you don't believe they can stop Manning, but now you're not even gonna leave the door open to say "guys, I had such confidence in you that I took the chance and went for it, knowing that even if our O couldn't get the 2 yards, you guys could stop them. I know it didn't work out, but I had confidence that you could stop him. That's one reason I went for it."

  9. #68
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Another point that was brought up that makes sense to me. When you give Manning the ball back with around 2 minutes to play you have to stop him for 4 downs. 4 downs instead of 3 makes it more difficult to turn the ball over on downs. With 2 minutes left to play and 1 TO left Manning would have been able to use the whole field. He could not only work the sidelines but also the middle of the field.

    I probably would have punted but the Pats D has been pretty porous in the 4th quarter. Also take into consideration the closer Manning gets to the goal line the more difficult it becomes. The field shrinks and its a little easier to defend.

  10. #69
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Another point that was brought up that makes sense to me. When you give Manning the ball back with around 2 minutes to play you have to stop him for 4 downs. 4 downs instead of 3 makes it more difficult to turn the ball over on downs. With 2 minutes left to play and 1 TO left Manning would have been able to use the whole field. He could not only work the sidelines but also the middle of the field.

    I probably would have punted but the Pats D has been pretty porous in the 4th quarter. Also take into consideration the closer Manning gets to the goal line the more difficult it becomes. The field shrinks and its a little easier to defend.
    I think the reasons are going backwards in quality at this point. That is pretty weak there.

  11. #70
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I think the reasons are going backwards in quality at this point. That is pretty weak there.
    I agree, I think every rational reason has already been stated. In effect he was playing the percentages, and he lost.

    What I think the real mistake was though is not running the ball on 3rd down. If you run it on 3rd and 2, the clock goes to the 2 minute warning and then you a) have an additional timeout, b) probably have a shorter try to go, and c)the Colts have less time.

    What the Patriots did smacks me as something that occurred to Belichick just as the 3rd down pass fell incomplete. So in effect it was a panic move and because of that it was wrong. However that's what the Colts (and previously the Steelers and Patriots) do to you, they make you think you have to do something almost impossible just to beat them. It's the Tiger Woods effect, you feel like you have to perform better than you are able, so therefor you perform even worse than your maximum.
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  12. #71
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Nice call Bellichump. It goes down as the worst call in NFL regular season history. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

  13. #72
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Nah, there's no way his call was worse than Sam Wyche trying to run out the clock by having the tailback run a sweep backwards. He was caught, the 49ers got the ball back and Joe Montana to Jerry Rice led to the Bengals being on the short end.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  14. #73
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Nah, there's no way his call was worse than Sam Wyche trying to run out the clock by having the tailback run a sweep backwards. He was caught, the 49ers got the ball back and Joe Montana to Jerry Rice led to the Bengals being on the short end.
    He did say regular season history
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #74
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxblood View Post
    Nice call Bellichump. It goes down as the worst call in NFL regular season history. Couldn't happen to a better guy.
    If I am completely honest, when they decided to go for it I was saying "no, you son of a b, just kick the ball!" I really didn't think the defense could stop them.
    "three dimes, a one hundred dollar bill and and 87 ones..."

  16. #75
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    Re: Brady or Manning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    If I am completely honest, when they decided to go for it I was saying "no, you son of a b, just kick the ball!" I really didn't think the defense could stop them.
    Sorry, you mean thought the Pats would convert on 4th and 2 and wanted them to punt because you were rooting for Indy?
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