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Thread: Have they dug the hole too deep?

  1. #16
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Since that's the case, it appears that the strike of 1995 did more damage to fans' willingness to attend games than the Reds FO.
    I'll buy that. I know older folks who should be all gaga over the reds who refuse to go to the ballpark since the strike.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  3. #17
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I'll buy that. I know older folks who should be all gaga over the reds who refuse to go to the ballpark since the strike.

    Get off my lawn, punk.

    Besides a loyal but relatively small fan base, Cincinnati baseball fans are front-runners. If the Reds start to win at a meaningful time (i.e. not in September when the season is down the toilet), fans will come. Not at BRM levels, but good attendence

    Baseball losing its young fan base is a larger MLB-level issue. I know us Cincinnati fans are all parochial and rust belt and stuck in the 19th century and all that, but I do think baseball is losing its grass-roots popularity. MLB has its eye on $$$ and TV ratings and I think they will reach and pass the tipping point without know it.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  4. #18
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Yet everytime a member of RedsZone questions that poor leadership you are there to defend that leadership?
    Better check your sources for that statement. I defend leadership when I think they are being unfairly criticized. Around here, there is a lot of fair criticism, but there is also a lot of piling on by folks who think they know more about the game than virtually anybody else, so if leadership doesn't do what they want, they are criticized.

    We are also talking about several regimes. I think you will find no love lost for the prior regimes in my post history, which you need to check if you are going to make accusations such as the above.

    If you don't want to take the time to do that, then I suggest you refrain from making broad, sweeping generalizations about another poster such as the one above.

  5. #19
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Better check your sources for that statement.

    but there is also a lot of piling on by folks who think they know more about the game than virtually anybody else,

    which you need to check if you are going to make accusations such as the above.

    I suggest you refrain from making broad, sweeping generalizations about another poster such as the one above.
    Hey trade did you read that before you posted?

  6. #20
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Better check your sources for that statement. I defend leadership when I think they are being unfairly criticized. Around here, there is a lot of fair criticism, but there is also a lot of piling on by folks who think they know more about the game than virtually anybody else, so if leadership doesn't do what they want, they are criticized.

    We are also talking about several regimes. I think you will find no love lost for the prior regimes in my post history, which you need to check if you are going to make accusations such as the above.

    If you don't want to take the time to do that, then I suggest you refrain from making broad, sweeping generalizations about another poster such as the one above.
    RM's right, you're a longtime FO apologist

    in your defense, it may help you to keep your sanity during the lost decade.

    I'm typing this with my nose because my straitjacket is too binding.
    2015, baby!

  7. #21
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    RM's right, you're a longtime FO apologist

    in your defense, it may help you to keep your sanity during the lost decade.

    I'm typing this with my nose because my straitjacket is too binding.
    Truly, your opinion of me matters, well, not at all.

  8. #22
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Why anyone would want to be an appologist for the Reds after the last decade is beyond me.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #23
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    The Reds have only one team in front of them in the standings with a clear talent advantage, the Cards. Normally, this would be the time for a team to start to make a run. Honestly, when's the last time this team had this much of a real chance in this division? So this is a great time to strike, right?

    Nope, this team is hunkering down.

  10. #24
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds have only one team in front of them in the standings with a clear talent advantage, the Cards. Normally, this would be the time for a team to start to make a run. Honestly, when's the last time this team had this much of a real chance in this division? So this is a great time to strike, right?

    Nope, this team is hunkering down.
    I would agree with you.

    And even the Cards have questions. DeRosa and Holliday are both likely goners, and probably Piniero, too. Ryan Franklin is also a pretty big question mark at closer, IMO.

    This would be the perfect time to shoot for an upgrade, ANY upgrade. But alas, we're probably looking at throwing some talent away, not adding it.

  11. #25
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    The Bengals are a bad comparison, simply because of the NFL's Cap structure. I don't think that this team's necessarily in a hole to deep for competent management to climb out of, but I'm afarid it's well over the head of the current managemnt group.

    I don't thin k the combination of Cass and Walt have a coherent vision or the intestinal fortitude for building what is needed.

    Too wary of be seen as going into a full-blown youth movement and not enough stomach to trade youth for now. They just keep picking around the fringes with dead-end deals like Rolen or complete wastes of meager funds like Taveras.

  12. #26
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Truly, your opinion of me matters, well, not at all.
    Take it private.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  13. #27
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    The Reds have suffered from a variety of issues since the 1994 strike/lock out that have kept attendance figures down. They lost quite a few die hard fans over the 1994 labor strife and never really did anything to win those fans back. The philosophy of the Reds FO under Marge Schott's leadership seemed to be that baseball sells itself. In the meantime, they lost a number of affiliates from the Reds Radio Network. They completely fumbled the chance to engage in positive public relations when funding for the new stadiums were up for a vote by expecting the citizens of Hamilton County to not only give them a new stadium, but also give them the location they wanted and give them preference over the Bengals even though they did nothing to help the measure get passed. They've also engaged in an anti-marketing campaign by allowing its most marketable and productive players to shoulder the blame for the team's failures instead of directing attention toward those areas where the team was weak (mainly pitching and lack of solid production and defense up the middle). Whether its Schott, John Allen, Lindner, or Castellini, there seems to be a tendency to blame the fans and their lack of support for their inability to put a winner on the field. When it comes to promoting the Reds, it seems like Reds leadership has trouble getting out of its own way. If the FO ever steps into the 21st century and seeks to build a positive relationship with its fans by reaching out to the them and making a commitment to building a winner, the fans will come.

    There is absolutely no reason why the Reds can't compete with the Cardinals on and off the field. Cincinnati and St. Louis are similar markets. However, one team has been proactive over the past decade and a half and the other has not.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  14. #28
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Have they dug the hole too deep?

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Take it private.
    Perhaps you should moderate the personal attacks instead.


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