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Thread: A modest make-over

  1. #1
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    A modest make-over

    Bored with the off-season and anticipating little from the Reds, but for the heck of it, thought I'd try to see if there were any possible moves that could be made to improve the team while addressing the budget. By my calculations, the Reds major league payroll for 2010 would be about $77 Million if the team went north with the guys on the current roster.

    Code:
    Num	Pos	Name	Sal
    1	S1	Cueto	0.5
    2	S2	Harang	12.5
    3	S3	Arroyo	11
    4	S4	Bailey	0.4
    5	S5	Maloney	0.4
    6	SW	Owings	0.5
    7	LHRP	Bray	0.5
    8	LHRP	Hererra	0.4
    9	RHRP	Masset	0.5
    10	RHRP	Burton	0.5
    11	SU	Rhodes	2
    12	CL	Cordero	12
    13	C1	Ramon	3
    14	C2	Hanigan	0.4
    15	1B	Votto	0.5
    16	2B	Phillips6.75
    17	3B	Rolen	11
    18	SS	Janish	0.4
    19	UI	Sutton	0.4
    20	LF	Gomes	2.5
    21	CF	Stubbs	0.4
    22	RF	Bruce	0.4
    23	4OF	CDick	0.4
    24	5OF	Wlad	0.4
    25	Super	Rosales	0.4
    DL		Volquez	0.5
    Dead		Taveras	4
    Dead		Lincoln	2.5
    ML Deal		Alonso	0.6
    ML Deal		Lehr	0.4
    DL Fill-ins	Various	1
    		Total	77.15
    So the goals of any make-over would have to include cutting the cost down to the mid to high 60s along with trying to address the SS spot, adding a catcher for AAA with a future, addressing the logjam in the OF and possibly the pen and finding competent replacements for any guys dealt away.

    The moves:

    1. Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln and Danny Dorn to the White Sox for Scott Linebrink. The Sox have stated that they want a speedy type who they can try to have lead-off and play CF and a LH bat that can help at DH and the OF. They also want to get out from under the bad deal that they gave to Scott Linebrink. Taveras is not a guy I would choose, but the Sox went with Dewayne Wise and Scott Podsednik in 2009 and this is one team who may have interest in him if they can dump a worse contract in return. The Reds save about $1.5 Million in 2010 while taking on Linebrink's $5.5 Million obligation for 2011. The Sox save about $4 Million overall.

    2. With Linebrink in the Pen, Jared Burton to Tampa Bay for Reid Brignac. The Rays have no spot for Brignac with Bartlett now and Beckham on the way and have stated a goal of addressing the bullpen with cheaper options than the run of the mill $3 to $4 Million guys that they could get in Free Agency. Burton would be a similar type for $500K.

    3. Bronson Arroyo to the New York Mets for Josh Thole. The Mets get their veteran innings eater and the Reds move a bunch of cash while adding a catcher for the future.

    4. Jonny Gomes to the Braves for Kenshin Kawakami. The Reds replace Arroyo in the middle of the Rotation with a cheaper but still pricey alternative who Atlanta has been rumored to want to move. The Reds may be able to use Kawakami as a springboard toward aquiring other Japanese talent. The Braves get their RH power bat for LF without having to take on any money for a guy like Xavier Nady who could cost $5 or $6 Million and require multiple years. Atlanta has lots of young OF who will be ready soon, so a short term fix while moving a contract would probably appeal to them.

    So after those moves the 2010 roster:

    Code:
    Num	Pos	Name	Sal
    1	S1	Cueto	0.5
    2	S2	Harang	12.5
    3	S3	Kenshin	6.5
    4	S4	Bailey	0.4
    5	S5	Maloney	0.4
    6	SW	Owings	0.5
    7	LHRP	Bray	0.5
    8	LHRP	Hererra	0.4
    9	RHRP	Masset	0.5
    10	RHRP	Linebr'k 5
    11	SU	Rhodes	2
    12	CL	Cordero	12
    13	C1	Ramon	3
    14	C2	Hanigan	0.4
    15	1B	Votto	0.5
    16	2B	Phillips6.75
    17	3B	Rolen	11
    18	SS	Brignac	0.4
    19	UI	Janish	0.4
    20	LF	Heisey	0.4
    21	CF	Stubbs	0.4
    22	RF	Bruce	0.4
    23	4OF	CDick	0.4
    24	5OF	Wlad	0.4
    25	Super	Sutton	0.4
    DL		Volquez	0.5
    ML Deal		Alonso	0.6
    ML Deal		Lehr	0.4
    DL Fill-ins	Various	1
    			
    			
    		Total	68.55
    The Reds cut the payroll down while adding a SS alternative and a highly regarded catching prospect. They effectively replace Arroyo and Burton with guys aquired and open some time in the OF for the Heisey/Francisco/Wlad group. They move some dead money but take on money in 2011 with Linebrink and Kawakami.

    Of course I know these moves won't happen, but I think they reds could do something to use what they have available to stay competitive, address some needs and still cut costs. They will probably have to take on some money for 2011 to cut costs in 2010 though, but 2011 looks like a year with a lot more room as Rolen will come off the books and either come back at a reduced rate or hopefully be replaced by Frazier who I hope gets his year of playing 3B under his belt this year. Harang will be off the books too and with Volquez coming back the Reds shouldn't have to spend any money to replace him.
    Last edited by mth123; 11-21-2009 at 08:41 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #2
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    I could live with #1 assuming the White Sox could, not sure they would bite. #2 I'd still prefer Izturis but could certainly live with swapping an arm for Brignac, but would try Carlos Fisher or maybe even Micah Owings maybe. On #3 I'd maybe rather deal them Harang at this point, he's a bit more expensive and I like having a rubber arm like Arroyo around who gives the opposition a different look than the rest of our arms. Thole I don't know much about but if he can indeed play catcher (which I think has been questioned here) then I'm all for it. And I'm all for Gomes for Kawakami if the Braves would do it, again questionable if they would go for it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  4. #3
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    I'll play...

    1. Harang to the Mets for Thole, or to the Rangers for Teagarden. If either of these potential suitors demands Arroyo instead, fine. But Harang is due to make $1.5 million more than Arroyo in 2010, and we might need that mad money in July if our modest makeover puts us in the playoff chase. Net savings: Either $12.5 million (Harang) or $11 million (Arroyo)

    2. Cordero, Valaika and Gomes to the Angels for Izturis and Fuentes. We trade our $12 million closer for their more modestly priced $9 million closer. We surrender a young MI prospect and a cheap DH/OF that the Angels can use in place of Guerrero, who is likely moving on to other pastures. In return, we pick up our new starting SS, the switch-hitting Izturis. Net savings: Not clear until Gomes and Izturis get new negotiated contracts or go through arb. But for the sake of argument, let's assume Gomes can make $2.7 million in 2010, and Izturis $3.1 million. In that event, the trade saves us another $2.6 million.

    3. Taveras, Lincoln and Burton to the Royals for Farnsworth and prospects. This is mostly a swap of bad contracts (Taveras-Lincoln for Farnsworth), coupled with a swap of emerging players (Burton for whichever KC prospects we covet and they're willing to give us). Net savings: $2 million.

    4. One free-agent SP signing, for circa $4-5 million, to replace Harang or Arroyo. My preference: Justin Duchscherer, formerly with the Oakland As.

    If we go this route, the 2010 Reds become:

    C: Hernandez, Hanigan (with Thole or Teagarden waiting in the wings)
    1B: Votto (with Alonso as AAA understudy)
    2B: Phillips (with Frazier up next)
    SS: Izturis, Janish (with Cozart getting ready)
    3B: Rolen Sutton/Rosales (shadowed by Francisco)
    LF: Heisey Dickerson
    CF: Stubbs
    RF: Bruce Balentien

    SP: Harang or Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Duchscherer, Maloney
    Bullpen: Owings, Herrera, Farnsworth, open slot (Bray?, Fisher?, Ondrusek?, may the best man win), Rhodes, Masset, Fuentes

    By my calculations, this core team would cost us $62.05 million. Add another $3 million for Volquez, Lehr, Alonso and AAA guys called up to play for guys who land on the DL, and we're right at $65 million in payroll.

    Task completed. Budget balanced, our competitive edge improved for 2010 and we have also reloaded, restocked for the future.

  5. #4
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    I'll play...

    1. Harang to the Mets for Thole, or to the Rangers for Teagarden. If either of these potential suitors demands Arroyo instead, fine. But Harang is due to make $1.5 million more than Arroyo in 2010, and we might need that mad money in July if our modest makeover puts us in the playoff chase. Net savings: Either $12.5 million (Harang) or $11 million (Arroyo)

    2. Cordero, Valaika and Gomes to the Angels for Izturis and Fuentes. We trade our $12 million closer for their more modestly priced $9 million closer. We surrender a young MI prospect and a cheap DH/OF that the Angels can use in place of Guerrero, who is likely moving on to other pastures. In return, we pick up our new starting SS, the switch-hitting Izturis. Net savings: Not clear until Gomes and Izturis get new negotiated contracts or go through arb. But for the sake of argument, let's assume Gomes can make $2.7 million in 2010, and Izturis $3.1 million. In that event, the trade saves us another $2.6 million.

    3. Taveras, Lincoln and Burton to the Royals for Farnsworth and prospects. This is mostly a swap of bad contracts (Taveras-Lincoln for Farnsworth), coupled with a swap of emerging players (Burton for whichever KC prospects we covet and they're willing to give us). Net savings: $2 million.

    4. One free-agent SP signing, for circa $4-5 million, to replace Harang or Arroyo. My preference: Justin Duchscherer, formerly with the Oakland As.

    If we go this route, the 2010 Reds become:

    C: Hernandez, Hanigan (with Thole or Teagarden waiting in the wings)
    1B: Votto (with Alonso as AAA understudy)
    2B: Phillips (with Frazier up next)
    SS: Izturis, Janish (with Cozart getting ready)
    3B: Rolen Sutton/Rosales (shadowed by Francisco)
    LF: Heisey Dickerson
    CF: Stubbs
    RF: Bruce Balentien

    SP: Harang or Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey, Duchscherer, Maloney
    Bullpen: Owings, Herrera, Farnsworth, open slot (Bray?, Fisher?, Ondrusek?, may the best man win), Rhodes, Masset, Fuentes

    By my calculations, this core team would cost us $62.05 million. Add another $3 million for Volquez, Lehr, Alonso and AAA guys called up to play for guys who land on the DL, and we're right at $65 million in payroll.

    Task completed. Budget balanced, our competitive edge improved for 2010 and we have also reloaded, restocked for the future.

    I like the way you think.

  6. #5
    Member Emin3mShady07's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    Well, from a White Sox perspective, that deal really doesn't do anything for us, we swap crappy contracts, and save a little dough in 2011, but we don't really need much cap space in 2011 with the departure of AJ Pierzynski and Paul Konerko. The White Sox are trying to get some more funds this year, and I hardly think that the Sox would ever want garbage like Taveras and Lincoln. Our farm system is deep in relief prospects, the only area we are really deep in so there is no need for Lincoln, and Jordan Danks has had an awesome showing in the AFL and I'd wager he would produce more value for essentially free than Taveras would, so there is no need for Taveras. We'd love to move Linebrink, but Kenny Williams is a very stubborn customer about taking on bad contracts and I highly doubt with Taveras's showing last year he is an option for any major league team.
    Baseball is not necessarily an obsessive-compulsive disorder, like washing your hands 100 times a day, but it's beginning to seem that way. We're reaching the point where you can be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick. ~Thomas Boswell

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  7. #6
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    Well, from a White Sox perspective, that deal really doesn't do anything for us, we swap crappy contracts, and save a little dough in 2011, but we don't really need much cap space in 2011 with the departure of AJ Pierzynski and Paul Konerko. The White Sox are trying to get some more funds this year, and I hardly think that the Sox would ever want garbage like Taveras and Lincoln. Our farm system is deep in relief prospects, the only area we are really deep in so there is no need for Lincoln, and Jordan Danks has had an awesome showing in the AFL and I'd wager he would produce more value for essentially free than Taveras would, so there is no need for Taveras. We'd love to move Linebrink, but Kenny Williams is a very stubborn customer about taking on bad contracts and I highly doubt with Taveras's showing last year he is an option for any major league team.

    I'm not so sure. Ozzie is kinda like Dusty, they both love speedy guys even if they can't get on base.

  8. #7
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: A modest make-over

    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    Well, from a White Sox perspective, that deal really doesn't do anything for us, we swap crappy contracts, and save a little dough in 2011, but we don't really need much cap space in 2011 with the departure of AJ Pierzynski and Paul Konerko. The White Sox are trying to get some more funds this year, and I hardly think that the Sox would ever want garbage like Taveras and Lincoln. Our farm system is deep in relief prospects, the only area we are really deep in so there is no need for Lincoln, and Jordan Danks has had an awesome showing in the AFL and I'd wager he would produce more value for essentially free than Taveras would, so there is no need for Taveras. We'd love to move Linebrink, but Kenny Williams is a very stubborn customer about taking on bad contracts and I highly doubt with Taveras's showing last year he is an option for any major league team.
    I'd agree that no team needs Taveras. But the sox are the kind of team that seem drawn to his ilk. Podsednik, Wise, etc. I have read one report after the Teahan deal that the sox were looking for a speedy lead-off type that can run between Rios and Quentin in CF. I personally don't think Willy qualifies but some in baseball still may. Lincoln was just a money thing. I'm thinking if the Reds could deal Willy and a prospect for Linebrink, the Reds wouldn't insist on adding Lincoln to the deal. They'd just have to deal him elsewhere with another prospect to move the money if its possible.

    As for taking on bad contracts, Williams took Rios, so I'm not sure how stubborn he is on that. I think he's more of a gambler that would take a flyer while moving some one he doesn't want.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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