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Thread: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

  1. #61
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Rod is flexible? Actually I think that is one of his faults, his inability to adapt. He runs the spread style offense, and he is going to run that even if he doesn't have the personal to do so. Look at last years disastrous season when he tried to run the spread with Sheridan.

    From an outsider's point of view Rod was an awful hire. But he did more damage when he first stepped on campus when he didn't adapt the Michigan tradition. His first move should have been to throw everything at Mallet and convince him to stay. He also had some other noticeable defections, one being Boren, that left his program in poor shape. Even the week leading up to OSU UM Rod had to deal with questions about him embracing the tradition of UM.

    I don't think Rod's style of play will work at UM. I just don't see a full blown spread working at UM. And if the spread is to work at a school like UM they need a bigger QB than Forcier or Robinson. I just don't think they can take the pounding that schools like Iowa, PSU, or OSU will give them. It make work in the Big East where the athletes aren't as big or as fast, but not in the Big 10. Look at the successful spread teams in the SEC, it usually takes a big QB to run a spread because of the punishment they take.
    To the first point, there was ZERO chance of success last season no matter what offense he tried to run. They simply didn't have the personnel. Rodriguez got a horribly late jump on recruiting at Michigan, and there wasn't a ton of offensive talent to begin with.

    As for the Boren defection. No matter what you hear in buckeye land, Boren left because he was being singled out by Barwis (michigans strength coach) for being soft and not working as hard as everybody else. Boren was a prima dona that couldn't hack it when he was forced to take his training in a different direction, and with a level of commitment that he had never had to go to before. Bottom line. End of story. As for who was right? I'll take Barwis on this one... Quick did you know... Leading up to the 2008 NFL season Lamar Woodley opted to train at Michigan with Barwis instead of working out with his fellow Steelers. When starting his training regimine Barwis asked Woodley to set his goals. Woodley set them, and Barwis laughed, then gave him new tougher goals. Woodley said at the time he thought Barwis was insane, but within 2-3 weeks Woodley was able to meet each of the lifting and sprinting goals that Barwis had created for him... Led to a pretty decent 2008 NFL campaign iirc.

    Finally, Rodriguez HAS had success running the spread without a terribly mobile QB, albeit one with a bit more size. In 1998 he led Tulane to a 12-0 season with Shaun King as his starting QB. King wasn't the most mobile QB in the world, but had 156 carries for 633 yards at 4.1 ypc. However he was 244/364 with 3495 yards passing and 38 TD's. That offense wasn't the same one as the one he ran at WVU, but he adapted it to fit his personnel, and it worked well.

    Either way... The correct QB will be there next season when Devin Gardner comes in. He'll also be an early enrollee, so it will be interesting to see how that works out. 6'4"/195, good (but not dynamic) runner (though rivals does rate him as the top scrambler) with the 2nd strongest arm in the country.
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  3. #62
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    Yeah, but you don't HAVE to have a mobile QB to make a spread work... UC does just fine when Pike is in the game...
    UC runs a version of the spread but it's not a spread option. You need a mobile QB for a spread option.

    Throwing that aside, spread systems in college do not bode well for a guy's NFL career. If Mallett wants to start in the NFL and best prepare himself, he's smart to pick a school with a pro set offense. We will likely see this play out in the draft. My guess is you'll see Jake Locker go before Tim Tebow

  4. #63
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    RichRod's problems go much deeper than finding a QB. The decline of the defense is criminal by UM standards. That should never happen in Ann Arbor.

    I'm just not impressed with the guy. Just hearing him speak he doesn't seem like a leader or a motivator nor does he sound confident.

  5. #64
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    To the first point, there was ZERO chance of success last season no matter what offense he tried to run. They simply didn't have the personnel. Rodriguez got a horribly late jump on recruiting at Michigan, and there wasn't a ton of offensive talent to begin with.
    Its Michigan. ZERO chance of success means winning 6 games in a down Big 10. That is the biggest indictment on Rich Rod for me, he hasn't been able to win games. The best coaches are able to up coach their players and win games. I know there was turmoil in the program. I know it was a different system. But the fact of the matter is Michigan is still a destination program. They still walked onto the field in about 75% of their games with better athletes than their opponent. To me that is more about coaching than anything else.
    As for the Boren defection. No matter what you hear in buckeye land, Boren left because he was being singled out by Barwis (michigans strength coach) for being soft and not working as hard as everybody else. Boren was a prima dona that couldn't hack it when he was forced to take his training in a different direction, and with a level of commitment that he had never had to go to before. Bottom line. End of story. As for who was right? I'll take Barwis on this one... Quick did you know... Leading up to the 2008 NFL season Lamar Woodley opted to train at Michigan with Barwis instead of working out with his fellow Steelers. When starting his training regimine Barwis asked Woodley to set his goals. Woodley set them, and Barwis laughed, then gave him new tougher goals. Woodley said at the time he thought Barwis was insane, but within 2-3 weeks Woodley was able to meet each of the lifting and sprinting goals that Barwis had created for him... Led to a pretty decent 2008 NFL campaign iirc.
    I have heard both sides of the story. There probably is a little bit of truth in everything that is being said. I have also heard that Barwis is insane. I have heard that his workouts were gruesome. But what I do see is that Boren is starting on OSU's line. He started before he left UM. In all likelihood he will end up playing on Sundays when his time at OSU comes to an end. He may very well have been a prima dona, but when you come into a new program you work to keep those guys in your program. You sell your program on them. IIRC he also had WR defections in Manningham and Arrington who left probably a year early.

    Unless you were in the program or had first hand knowledge everything is conjecture.

    Finally, Rodriguez HAS had success running the spread without a terribly mobile QB, albeit one with a bit more size. In 1998 he led Tulane to a 12-0 season with Shaun King as his starting QB. King wasn't the most mobile QB in the world, but had 156 carries for 633 yards at 4.1 ypc. However he was 244/364 with 3495 yards passing and 38 TD's. That offense wasn't the same one as the one he ran at WVU, but he adapted it to fit his personnel, and it worked well.
    It was Tulane. And I don't exactly think King was a statue. When he was first hired I didn't think his style of offense would work at UM. A smallish QB in the spread offense is a recipe for disaster. Frocier took his fair share of beatings this season and it really showed. You need to have a very solid QB back there to run the spread effectively and take all the hits.

    Either way... The correct QB will be there next season when Devin Gardner comes in. He'll also be an early enrollee, so it will be interesting to see how that works out. 6'4"/195, good (but not dynamic) runner (though rivals does rate him as the top scrambler) with the 2nd strongest arm in the country.
    It will be Forcier's job to lose, if he stays at UM. It is never a good thing to throw a freshman QB into the starting roll at the beginning. They need time to develop to the speed of the college game. They need time to adapt to the school work and the college life. Even the most highly thought of college recruits struggle, see Pryor, Terrelle.
    Last edited by bucksfan2; 11-23-2009 at 01:38 PM.

  6. #65
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    Either way... The correct QB will be there next season when Devin Gardner comes in. He'll also be an early enrollee, so it will be interesting to see how that works out. 6'4"/195, good (but not dynamic) runner (though rivals does rate him as the top scrambler) with the 2nd strongest arm in the country.
    Devin Gardner is as raw as they come. Good tools, but he needs the time on the bench that Forcier never got.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    If I were advising Ryan Mallet, the second they named Rodriguez as the coach, I would have told him to get out of dodge. Mallet had a serious attitude problem his freshman year in Ann Arbor, but he did the right thing by leaving. It was a no-brainer, IMO.
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  8. #67
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009


    But the fact of the matter is Michigan is still a destination program. They still walked onto the field in about 75% of their games with better athletes than their opponent. To me that is more about coaching than anything else.

    Yep, plus UM fans knew they'd experience a dip at some juncture (it's the nature of the beast) but one thing I know we can't stand for is the porus defense, and 4th quarter nightmares, that's not Big Ten nor UM football and if he can't stop that it will not matter how powerful his offense is, UM fans want smash-mouth defense, not to get smashed.

  9. #68
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yep, plus UM fans knew they'd experience a dip at some juncture (it's the nature of the beast) but one thing I know we can't stand for is the porus defense, and 4th quarter nightmares, that's not Big Ten nor UM football and if he can't stop that it will not matter how powerful his offense is, UM fans want smash-mouth defense, not to get smashed.
    I'm a UM fan... I could care less about smash mouth. I want to see winning football... One thing is for certain though... Greg Robinson sucks.
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  10. #69
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    Re: Ohio State - Michigan 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by REDblooded View Post
    I'm a UM fan... I could care less about smash mouth. I want to see winning football... One thing is for certain though... Greg Robinson sucks.
    I'd argue that on D, if you want to see winning, you want to care about smash mouth.


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