First, please note the sarcasm in my comment about Zimmer. Second, to be fair, the complaints about any coach or FO personnel (even Mike Brown) have been few and far between this season----except in the losses. Then, suddenly the coaches are idiots and can't teach the guys not to false start or to keep from fumbling, or even how to avoid a tipped ball at the end of a game by keeping a safety back. It's ludicrous.Originally Posted by DTCromer
The offense has been inconsistent and poorly coached for years now. The play calling has always been questionable, even in wins at times.
I don't think it's ludicrous to expect better.
^ Yep. I think often the team wins in spite of Bratkowski, not because of him.
How about giving Carson Palmer some creative control, ala Peyton Manning.
The Bengals had one of the most dynamic offenses in the game in 2005 under Brat. The offense has always been the strength of the team during the Brat era. Last year was obviously a team decimated by injuries. I'm not saying he is the best in the league, but I do not think the above complaints contain enough information to make the conclusions you do.
And a fan complaining about "play calling" is about as Monday Morning QBing as one can get. It really is an argument void of meaning.
I don't think it's an argument void of meaning at all. ONE year out of the last five, this offense has met its potential. One. It didn't play consistently in 2006 or 2007, and it's not doing so this year (I won't count last year, with Palmer being hurt).
I'm not calling for Brat's head based off the results of one game. But I am saying that this team needs an upgrade. The best teams never settle, and if we're settling on Bob Bratkowski as our long term offensive coordinator... well, expect more of the same.
How very true. I do like some things about Brat but if your looking for an ideal fit as offensive co-ordinator to turn a team into a consistent winner it's not him (at least not up to the start of this season). His offenses have always been long on big play ability and short on moving the chains type of success. And a feast or famine type of approach is sometimes what you need in certain matchups but is rarely a wise philosophical approach due to the amount of time your defense generally spends on the field as a result.
Of course that isn't what occured in this game but generally speaking that's been Brats MO. This year Brat has done a better job of meshing the offense to a unit which controls the clock and makes big plays when neccessary. If he can keep himself under control he could be an asset because he would prove his versatility in being able to play whatever style is neccessary to win any particular kind of game given the right players/execution. There was a time I would have canned him but I'm not sure it's wise now. Let's see how the season plays out now before we decide he's the wrong guy for the job going forward.
That said what you are seeing is the Houshmanzadeh effect. He was a guy who was special at working the underneath to intermediate routes and getting open, catching the ball when it was thrown to him. Great attributes for being able to move the ball methodically thru the air. Coles could become that guy but he's just started to get comfortable with the offense & Carson the past few games (remember he had little time with him prior to the opening game). When the defense is trying to keep you from going deep you have to rely more on the short passing game and we just aren't getting it done there for a host of reasons.
The ramifications of not having Housh underneath and Henry over the top has confined us to an area of the field that doesn't lend itself to a consistent moving of the ball. We should improve underneath assuming Coles and Caldwell continue to improve along with Leonard and Foschi all of which are still only 10 games into knowing Carson and how he is seeing/doing things. But Henry's absence will loom larger later in the season if we find no alternative (Galloway).
Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 11-24-2009 at 11:31 PM.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
Is Brat the reason we lost? No.
Could the Bengals do much better as far as off. coordinator is concerned? Yes.
Sorry, but "play calling" is not an argument, which you just demonstrated.
Fine, some folks don't like Brat. Whining about it after an upset loss just sounds like sour grapes and scapegoating.
Remember, the post that started his attributed false starts and fumbles to poor coaching, even though the false starts had not been a problem since the first couple of games and fumbles are a part of the game and have not been excessive.
That is what makes this line of discussion so frustrating, seeing folks crawl out of the woodwork to start chirping about their least favorite personnel as the root of all losses. And the worst part it is the shallowness of the criticism, as if that if a fair evaluation of anyone. I would love to see some of you sit in your job evaluations and receive the broad, general, criticisms levied at front office and coaching staff, or even players, and then have them replace you on that basis.
They lost. I can accept that and don't have to start back with fire this coach or upgrade this coach for loss therapy. Apparently some do.
lol... Just because we lost and want a new O-coordinator doesn't mean we are ticked off and sore losers. Personally, I would have wanted a new coordinator even if Caldwell wouldn't have handed the Raiders an easy win.
1st and 20 and we run an obvious run up the middle play with a "weak" RB
Your line of thinking here is incredibly off based. It's not a matter of Cincy losing, and me running to the computer to call for Brat's head. I know that may be hard to believe, but it's not the case. I could care less about Sunday's game. You're going to lose some, and Oakland isn't an easy place to play. This team is still going to the playoffs, and it's still over-achieved this year, so I can handle the loss.
But if you really don't feel like we can do better at O-coordinator, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I would be happy to read your posts mentioning such a thing after other games this year.
Also, I did not say we could not do better. There is always someone better. There is also merit to "better the devil that you do know." Charlie Weis has been thrown out there as the beginning of this thread, much of it based on his supposed super genius status from time in New England. The beat has gone on in NE since his leaving, so other than name recognition, I sure have not seen any compelling reasons to consider him an upgrade.
Off topic a bit here, but I fully expect to see a much better big play offense this week in small part to the debut of one Andre Smith (I'm guessing). I think he will get some snaps for the 1st time and i'm interested to watch him play.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
The Bengals won the game today, but I was pretty unhappy with the offensive performance overall.
They ran the ball well, but they were incredibly predictable, the line was awful in the passing game, they committed penalty after penalty and the passing game was nearly non existant.
The Lions put up a boatload of points against that defense.
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