Do parents have a right to take unruly kids on a plane?

[Ltlabner]

To me this is VERY different from spanking. But I might be wrong about that.

Different as in an acceptable tool?

We've been pretty creative with discipline thus far, but I'll be honest that sometimes I'm at a loss as to how to get the point across to someone who doesn't speak yet (well, twice anyway) other than the hand smack.

[Falls City Beer]

Different as in an acceptable tool?

We've been pretty creative with discipline thus far, but I'll be honest that sometimes I'm at a loss as to how to get the point across to someone who doesn't speak yet (well, twice anyway).

Totally acceptable. Spanking is a formal use of force to punish; swatting a hand on the verge of self-injury or worse is just parenting.

[Ltlabner]

Totally acceptable. Spanking is a formal use of force to punish; swatting a hand on the verge of self-injury or worse is just parenting.

Gotcha and agree.

So far we've found the best punishment to be making her sit still. I wouldn't spank her anyway as she's too young to understand it, but forcing her to sit in one spot and be still is murder for her.

[KittyDuran]

The hand-smacks were reserved for the time she was trying to remove the cover from the power outlet and the time she bit momma's hand. The biting incident was more of an instinctual reaction from me and she hasn't done it since (so did it work or is it coincidence?). The power outlet moment was something we discussed before hand.

I'm never been a parent... - but this reminded me of a story. My Mom said that when she was pregnant with my little sister I was sitting on her lap. She was ignoring me so I bit her on the neck and that she bit me right back. Never did it again - but I don't remember the incident anyway..

[KittyDuran]

Just a look of shear terror at the notion of his dad coming home and finding out.

Did that mean that the Dad was the "discipline"? My Mom hated that in other parents - her feeling was that disciplining kids should be pretty equal among parents. My Dad was in the Navy for my two older sisters and would be gone for months at a time - then for me and my little sister he was employed as a police officer - Mom didn't think it was right to put that news on him right when he came home from work.

[KittyDuran]

That's getting old and it's pretty condescending toward people that have different opinions than you.

So far I agree with everything Doug and Randy have said. I don't feel I was abused. I was never hit, I was spanked. And never anywhere but on the butt. My Dad was good about not doing it in anger either. We usually sat down and had a talk about what was going to happen and why and then another talk after the spanking.

Yep, me and my sisters were all spanked and it only lasted until right before kindergarten. Namely, at least for me, is that I pretty much knew my parents and knew what was good behavior and what was bad. After that it was more of grounding and taking away priviledges (no playing outside, watching TV-all 7 channels, going to friend's homes, etc.) Oh, and only one sister ever got slapped in the face! It was around 1967-1968 and my sister Freddi wanted to go over to a friend's house. Harmless enough, except it was a school night and she had been there once already in the week. It was in the winter and I was sitting on the forced heat register in the dining room when she started arguing with my parents and crying. Then it came... she told my Mom to "go to hell" and my Dad slapped her across the face - I nearly peed my pants. Freddi immediately stopped crying and my Dad quietly told her to go to her room. I was saying a silent prayer to her "please don't slam the door - I can't stand you most of the time, but I don't want you to be dead!". She didn't and will celebrate her 56th birthday this Friday!

Note: To this day my parents do not recall this ever happening even with me as a witness. My feeling is that it was probably more traumatic for my parents than it was for Freddi and me. I once told my sister that they probably felt that they had failed as parents.

[westofyou]

Yep, me and my sisters were all spanked and it only lasted until right before kindergarten. Namely, at least for me, is that I pretty much knew my parents and knew what was good behavior and what was bad. After that it was more of grounding and taking away priviledges (no playing outside, watching TV-all 7 channels, going to friend's homes, etc.) Oh, and only one sister ever got slapped in the face! It was around 1967-1968 and my sister Freddi wanted to go over to a friend's house. Harmless enough, except it was a school night and she had been there once already in the week. It was in the winter and I was sitting on the forced heat register in the dining room when she started arguing with my parents and crying. Then it came... she told my Mom to "go to hell" and my Dad slapped her across the face - I nearly peed my pants. Freddi immediately stopped crying and my Dad quietly told her to go to her room. I was saying a silent prayer to her "please don't slam the door - I can't stand you most of the time, but I don't want you to be dead!". She didn't and will celebrate her 56th birthday this Friday!

Note: To this day my parents do not recall this ever happening even with me as a witness. My feeling is that it was probably more traumatic for my parents than it was for Freddi and me. I once told my sister that they probably felt that they had failed as parents.

1968, in the guest room, my mom slapped me and bloodied my nose. My father was incredulous with that fact, that was the only time other than whipping I deserved at 13 that I can remember a hand being raised aside from a wooden spoon smack when I poked the bear.

[Yachtzee]

Did that mean that the Dad was the "discipline"? My Mom hated that in other parents - her feeling was that disciplining kids should be pretty equal among parents. My Dad was in the Navy for my two older sisters and would be gone for months at a time - then for me and my little sister he was employed as a police officer - Mom didn't think it was right to put that news on him right when he came home from work.

I don't recall if his mom dished out any punishment or not. I just remember that the kid's dad was one mean dude. I also remember that my parents had a pretty dim view of him and didn't like me playing over at their house when he was home.

[Johnny Footstool]

Gotcha and agree.

So far we've found the best punishment to be making her sit still. I wouldn't spank her anyway as she's too young to understand it, but forcing her to sit in one spot and be still is murder for her.

What will you do when she doesn't sit still? How do you escalate it?

[GAC]

I was referring to "Spare the rod, spoil the child." It's like child-rearing discussions are either "Let him do whatever he wants; never say 'no.'" or "Whip his arse!"

There has to be a balance there. And not all children are the same. There is such a thing, at least IMO, as the strong-willed child.

You obviously, at least IMO, don't spank a child under the age of 2. We never did. But I have always followed the below....

Set reasonable boundaries in accordance to the child's maturity level, and insure they understand them.

Never spank in anger.

Never spank because of actions that result from childish immaturity - spilling a drink, leaving their bike out in the yard, etc.

But when that that child KNOWS those boundaries, and decides they are going to try and stand "toe to toe" with that parental authority, put their foot across the line, and see ifn what the parent says should be taken seriously, then, IMO, definitive action by that parent needs to be taken.

An it may be, depending on that particular child, that "alternative" corrective action will work. Children's dispositions vary.

But afterwards, always follow it up with positive reinforcement with the child.

We spanked. But we did it in accordance to the above rules. And our kids have turned out just fine.

My parent's spanked us. We weren't spanked in every situation. Only when it deserved it. And when I look back on it, BOY did we three boys deserved it every time we got it. It didn't mar us.

[RFS62]

I got spanked as a kid. Didn't scar me a bit. We kid mom about it still today, saying we were abused.

I far preferred a spanking to a tongue lashing. Those really hurt, and the hurt lasted. Knowing I had disappointed my mom was much more severe a punishment to me than getting a few wacks. She was never verbally abusive, but when she laid down the law, there was no questioning what she meant.

I knew a few kids who were verbally abused and it was far worse than any spanking. Not beating, but spanking with a reason and an explanation.

Words hurt far longer than any physical pain.

[Roy Tucker]

I got spanked as a kid. Didn't scar me a bit. We kid mom about it still today, saying we were abused.

I far preferred a spanking to a tongue lashing. Those really hurt, and the hurt lasted. Knowing I had disappointed my mom was much more severe a punishment to me than getting a few wacks. She was never verbally abusive, but when she laid down the law, there was no questioning what she meant.

I knew a few kids who were verbally abused and it was far worse than any spanking. Not beating, but spanking with a reason and an explanation.

Words hurt far longer than any physical pain.

Funny you shoud say this, RFS.

I sent this article http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html?em to my daughter Jen a few weeks back. We had a good email discussion about parenting and raising children and how difficult it all is. She also gave me a fairly balanced view of how she though my wife and I did to raise her. It was enlightning.

She said disappointment was the thing that stung the most but also changed her behavior the most. Most other things she just laughed off (being the untimate willful child). But she said that when particularly I was disappointed and expressed that to her, well, that was the thing that caused her to seriously reflect on what she was doing.

Obviously that's not effective on littles kids, but once your children grow into teens and raising children becomes a combination of guerilla warfare and a battle of wits, you use any weapon you can find.

[SandyD]

when my parents spanked us, it was usually in anger, so we got the tongue lashing and the spanking at the same time. sometimes over accidents, like "spilled milk" and sometimes over things my parents "thought" we did, but didn't. i would generally admit wrongdoing when confronted.

but i would agree with roy's jen. the expression of disappointment can, if handled properly, be the most effective on a lot of children. and at a younger age than you might imagine. the spankings, tongue lashings, saying "i will not come in the front door" 10 times before you can move on, etc my parents tried had little effect, really.

My sister had a "fussy chair" when the twins were toddlers. Separate than the "time out" chair for discipline. If the child was whiney, out of sorts, rather than "disobedient", she made them sit in the "fussy chair" for a short time. Like a time out, only different. I like that. Separates the discipline from the quiet time.

[Ltlabner]

What will you do when she doesn't sit still? How do you escalate it?

Two words: duct tape

[RollyInRaleigh]

I got spanked as a kid. Didn't scar me a bit. We kid mom about it still today, saying we were abused.

I far preferred a spanking to a tongue lashing. Those really hurt, and the hurt lasted. Knowing I had disappointed my mom was much more severe a punishment to me than getting a few wacks. She was never verbally abusive, but when she laid down the law, there was no questioning what she meant.

I knew a few kids who were verbally abused and it was far worse than any spanking. Not beating, but spanking with a reason and an explanation.

Words hurt far longer than any physical pain.

I totally relate to this, RFS62. My mom was the one who did the spanking. My dad never lifted a hand to me. We had long, torturous, discussions that seemed to last forever, and I remember wishing that he would just spank me and get it over with. Disappointment was always the word he expressed and it really hurt to hear that. My wife has spanked our son, several times, and I have never lifted a hand to him. I have taken my dad's direction in matters of discipline, and it is interesting that Matt has told his mother several times that he cannot stand to disappoint me and that it is the worst punishment of all. I don't use the word often, but it really hits home with him when I express that he has disappointed me. Words like that should have real meaning, just like the words "Yes" and "No." Truly powerful words. Mean them when you say them. Respect them when you hear them.