Turn Off Ads?
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 184

Thread: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

  1. #106
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    JFay says Jocketty has been in talks with Craig Counsell.

    I'm not sure if I like the sound of that.
    How could Walt Jocketty and his advisory staff use stats or player performance history and even consider some of these players?
    Code:
    Craig Counsell 
    2003 Ari .234 .328 .304 .632 
    2004 Mil .241 .330 .315 .645 
    2005 Ari .256 .350 .375 .725 
    2006 Ari .255 .327 .347 .674 
    2007 Mil .220 .323 .309 .632 
    2008 Mil .226 .355 .302 .657 
    2009 Mil .285 .357 .408 .765
    
    Total 	OPS	.695
    								
    Willy OPS
    .666
    .671
    .749
    .604
    .560
    Total 	OPS	 .649
    I thought that the Reds already had a couple players that struggled to OPS .700? Wasn't that the knock on Janish in his limited AB/PA? Of course we are all familiar with Willy T.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 12-10-2009 at 12:54 AM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #107
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Posts
    1,125

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Counsell would be a decent utility infield pickup for the Reds, taking into account that:

    1. Janish struggles mightily against RH pitching, while Counsell hit .290 against righties last season with an OBP of .358.

    2. Batting left, Counsell also could spell Phillips and Rolen occasionally against tough righties.

    3. Counsell is a better defender up the middle than Hairston, Aurilia, Freel or the other veteran "super-subs" the Reds have used in recent years. Counsell doesn't play the outfield, but he doesn't need to -- we've got a glut of outfielders on the 40-man roster, and deserving prospects (Frazier, Dorn, etc.) knocking on the door.

    As long as the Reds extend a modest, one- or two-year contract to Counsell, they're occupying safe ground. He shouldn't get anything longer, or an onerous, escalating deal like Taveras got.

    Counsell is packing a deeper tool chest than Taveras, but he's 39, so he still needs to be viewed more as a stopgap and a transitional figure than as any kind of cog. He would be a bridge to get us to Cozart's emergence, or Janish finding his stroke, or the Arroyo/Harang salaries coming off the books so we could afford a pricier SS acquired via free-agency or trade.

  4. #108
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    Counsell would be a decent utility infield pickup for the Reds, taking into account that:
    These guys have traditionally found themselves starting under Dusty Baker

    1. Janish struggles mightily against RH pitching, while Counsell hit .290 against righties last season with an OBP of .358.
    Last year was a career best for the 39 year old. Beware of regression when an older player has a career best season.

    As long as the Reds extend a modest, one- or two-year contract to Counsell, they're occupying safe ground. He shouldn't get anything longer, or an onerous, escalating deal like Taveras got.
    The Reds tend to sweeten the pot a bit too much to get players to come and to sign with them, and then get stuck with buyers remorse.

    Counsell is packing a deeper tool chest than Taveras, but he's 39, so he still needs to be viewed more as a stopgap and a transitional figure than as any kind of cog.
    With the exception of the youngest players, (even the great Jay Bruce is questionable, certainly even the younger with less talent than he is questionable) practically all of the Reds players are stop gaps until something better comes along. The Reds are a team fraught with stop gaps, filler and fodder, wishing, a hoping and old injuries waiting to reoccur. All with the exclusion of Votto.

    Of course the younger players might actually progress if they were to get the bulk of the playing time, PA and AB.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 12-10-2009 at 03:57 AM.

  5. #109
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    17,995

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    I wonder if he came highly recommended by JoJo and Raisor? I just bet he did.
    This is pretty much a fringe move. They're stashing a defender in case of injury.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #110
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,175

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    This is pretty much a fringe move. They're stashing a defender in case of injury.

    That is the one thing he does well.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  7. #111
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,405

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Jukich just taken by the Cardinals.

  8. #112
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,815

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Jukich just taken by the Cardinals.
    Now maybe Walt can spend that 2,500k on a utility INFer.


  9. #113
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    This is pretty much a fringe move.
    True. Plus there is a chance that the guy might find himself and improve on a minor league contract.

    They're stashing a defender in case of injury.
    That's a good idea

  10. #114
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,065

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Jukich just taken by the Cardinals.
    I didn't see that one coming. Is it safe to assume that Duncan has studied him and believes he can make him into a winner? Good turn of events for Jukich. He was stalled in the Reds organization.

  11. #115
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,422

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    The Reds are looking for a middle infielder that can hit left-handed? You mean, someone like the recently-released Danny Richar?

  12. #116
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN
    Posts
    8,694

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    It's more that prevailing wisdom was that the farm was "turned around" and ready for a healthy Indians/Rays/Twins production cycle. So far that train hasn't exactly run on time. I've long argued that the Reds need to start spinning the farm's straw into MLB-caliber gold, but it looks like the Reds are content to sit tight with the kids, who, by and large, are nowhere near ready for primetime.
    Given what's currently on the farm, do you really think other teams would actually give us MLB caliber talent?

    IMO, it seems like the Reds expose their kids in a bad way, when they come up to the show and prove they were either overhyped, or not ready for The Show (or both).

  13. #117
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    IMO, it seems like the Reds expose their kids in a bad way, when they come up to the show and prove they were either overhyped, or not ready for The Show (or both).
    How so ??

    Just trying to get you to expand upon that, I am not looking for something to pick on. I think the pro's and con's of that comment might make a good topic if people would be motivated to particpate in it.

  14. #118
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,422

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    As far as I'm concerned, the worst case scenario is that Ben Jukich becomes the next Mike Neu. You can criticize the Reds brass of the past five years for many things, but exposing players to the rule five draft isn't one of them imo. Terrell Young was returned, Carlos Guevara was offered back, and Tony Blanco never amounted to anything.

  15. #119
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN
    Posts
    8,694

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    How so ??

    Just trying to get you to expand upon that, I am not looking for something to pick on. I think the pro's and con's of that comment might make a good topic if people would be motivated to particpate in it.
    Homer Bailey = exposed in a bad way.

    Wasn't ready for The Show when brought up, so now doubt creeps in if he was legit in the first place.

    I think it's more so the lack of "emergency" depth with the Reds. The last couple seasons we've had at least 3 roster spots on the 25 man occupied by guys that are 25th guys at best. Fast forward to an injury and the lack of AAAA guys and AAA lifers in Louisville means the FO now has to decide who to bring up, and for whatever reason they've brought up guys that just haven't been ready.

    Jay Bruce = also exposed in a bad way.

    Decent frosh season, abysmally crappy soph season. I honestly don't know what to think about him. I think he's legit, but I don't think we'll know until after 2011.



    I think the Reds need to do a better job of protecting the value of their kids, so they actually have trade value should that opportunity arise. Or, they can properly develop their kids, so they can contribute to the MLB club.

  16. #120
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,157

    Re: 2009 Winter Meetings thread

    C'mon Highlife...

    Bailey was just fine when he was first called up, and really didn't have anything left to prove... He wasn't gonna learn anything by consistently dominating his opposition. One of his biggest shortcomings at that point was between the ears, because of the confidence he'd built up due to a life of dominance... To truly develop he NEEDED to get roughed up a bit. Not to mention, he had his share of injuries, and one of the main sources of his struggles was due to tinkering with his mechanics in an effort to get him to hold baserunners more efficiently...

    As for Bruce.

    1.) Very young still.
    2.) I wouldn't call 22 HR's in 345 ab's at 22 years old an abject failure
    3.) VERY unlucky BABIP
    4.) Nothing left to prove in the minors
    5.) One of the best defensive RF's in the majors ='s "exposed in a bad way"?
    6.) Hit .306 after returning from his injury, during which time he found a major timing flaw in his swing
    7.) 32/22 K/BB from June on

    That's what happens when you bring up young prospects... Very rarely do they just instantly succeed and never look back. Miguel Cabrera is one of the only ones that comes to mind. They have to adapt to pitchers that can locate precisely with a full arsenal of pitches. You don't get that consistently enough in the minors to make it worthwhile to keep a bat like Bruce down there... I mean, heck, he WAS the top rated player in the minors for a reason... If they had kept him in AAA for another full season, everybody in the world would've been questioning their decision.

    If you want a decent comp on Bruce, and what will probably be a similar career path, look at another HS OF'r drafted the same year as Bruce, and called up even earlier....

    Justin Upton - http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8080
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

    Bryce Brentz
    Brandon Workman
    Kris Bryant
    Matt Lipka
    Rick Hague


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25