Steelers at Browns

[cincrazy]

Well then what's happened? How can a team that's beaten Denver, Minnesota and San Diego lose to KC, Oakland and Cleveland? Something has changed.

Injuries, quite simply. Not to mention the fact that it's the NFL, and losing to any team in any given week isn't too much of a shock. The Chiefs, Raiders and Browns have rosters chock full of guys who are professionals at what they do, and are among the best in the world at what they do. All three of those teams have shown improvement since the beginning of the season. That's not to say Pittsburgh shouldn't be kicking themselves for losing to them, but I don't question their heart or effort one bit.

[Dom Heffner]

Well then what's happened? How can a team that's beaten Denver, Minnesota and San Diego lose to KC, Oakland and Cleveland? Something has changed.

They did have Polamalu in two of those three games they won, and in none of those games they lost.

As well, they've been a questionable bunch all year- they lost to the Bears in week two, barely beat a Titans team that went on to lose its first 6 games.

[Sea Ray]

Injuries, quite simply. Not to mention the fact that it's the NFL, and losing to any team in any given week isn't too much of a shock. The Chiefs, Raiders and Browns have rosters chock full of guys who are professionals at what they do, and are among the best in the world at what they do. All three of those teams have shown improvement since the beginning of the season. That's not to say Pittsburgh shouldn't be kicking themselves for losing to them, but I don't question their heart or effort one bit.

Injuries didn't cause Roethlisberger to be sacked 8 times by a team that only had 24 coming into the game. Troy P was a big injury but there's more to it than that.

What's their O-coordinator up to putting ben in shot gun on third and one with those kind of weather conditions on Thursday Night?

This is not the same team it was earlier in the year.

[Chip R]

I'm just speculating here but I wonder if Big Ben's play has been affected by that concussion he suffered. He had an OK game against OAK but the CLE game was a disaster. I know when Tebow had his concusson he struggled for a few games when he returned. Of course Kurt Warner picked up where he left off so who knows.

[redalways]

I'm just speculating here but I wonder if Big Ben's play has been affected by that concussion he suffered. He had an OK game against OAK but the CLE game was a disaster. I know when Tebow had his concusson he struggled for a few games when he returned. Of course Kurt Warner picked up where he left off so who knows.

Injuries happen. Its just the nature of the NFL. As for the Steelers I don't think Big Ben is right. The OLine was never good but Big Ben could always improvise. This year he has been unable to do so. He has been going down easier and hasn't made many mobility plays.

[Revering4Blue]

Bulk of Pittsburgh blame rest with Arians
Posted by Mike Florio on December 12, 2009 9:14 AM ET
With the entire coaching staff returning and 19 of 22 starters in place to begin the year, the Steelers were expected to make a serious run at accomplishing the thing that the Steelers of the 1970s did twice -- win back-to-back Super Bowls.

A 6-2 start to the season only reinforced the belief that the Steelers would be right in the thick of things come January, and possibly February.

Though a return to the postseason is still not impossible, it's highly unlikely at this point.

So what's wrong with this team? We devoted Friday's PFT Daily exclusively to the subject, and there surely will be much discussion and debate in and beyond Pittsburgh regarding the things that need to be done to get the franchise back on track.

But here's the most obvious fix -- bid farewell to offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

Arians has lived by the pass and, particularly on Thursday night in Cleveland, died by it. As John Harris of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review points out, the Steelers' first two drives of the game ended with sacks of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who lined up in shotgun formation on third and short.

"You figure that is a run down," tackle Willie Colon said, per Harris. "[T]hat's usually a down for our running backs."

But not with Bruce Arians, who has turned the notion of Steeler football on its head by throwing the ball in such circumstances. Or, more accurately, by not throwing the ball because Roethlisberger again held the ball way too long.

Big Ben isn't blameless here. On third and short from shotgun formation, there's no excuse to not get rid of the ball quickly. Standing five yards back from the line, he's in great position to check the coverages, adjust a route or two if needed, and put a guy in position to have the ball in his hands before Colon or any other member of the offensive line is getting another green stain on the seat of his yellow pants.

By Week 14, however, Arians needs to factor his quarterback's tendencies into the plays that are called. And with the running game working (as it was early Thursday night), there's no reason to pass -- from shotgun -- on two straight third downs to start the game.

Coach Mike Tomlin has the ultimately responsibility for the offense and defense, but that Super Bowl trophy and a strong aversion by the franchise to changing coaches guarantees that Tomlin and "hot seat" won't be used in the same sentence until he is well into his 40s, at the earliest.

But Tomlin can, and should, hold members of his staff accountable -- especially those members of his staff that he inherited.

In order to get back to Steeler football, Arians needs to go.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-with-arians/

A legitimate question Steeler fans and Steeler haters alike should be asking:

Why are the Steelers not utilizing Dennis Dixon as the Browns are utilizing Joshua Cribbs?

Just curious.

[Yachtzee]

Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

[Revering4Blue]

Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Exactly.

Also, the assertion that that the Bengals' 9-3 record is largely the result of beating up on mediocre/poor divisional foes doesn't hold water, IMO.

As a point of comparison, the AFC East isn't exactly murderer's row.The 7-5 Patriots should be running away with this division, but, as of now, they are not.

[DTCromer]

Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Keith Rivers isn't that big of a loss, IMO. Have you ever seen him dominate any game he's played in? In fact, he's been dominated more (see Hines Ward) than make any type of dominating impact.

Roy Williams: Really? Was he THAT big of a loss?

Chris Henry: He did basically nothing this year.

Peko: One of the bigger losses on the team. He'll be back, but the Bengals need him there.

Kelly: IMO, THE biggest loss on the team this year. Don't underestimate what he means to the running game.

Odom: Obviously a big loss, but Fanene and others have stepped up so no big loss there. 1 more injury there, and the Bengals are hurting.


Polamalu is one of the best players on defense in the NFL. The Steelers secondary, sans Troy, has always been questionable, but he changes EVERYTHING on that defense. He hasn't been the sole reason why they've struggled, but a HUGE part. Where it really hurts is the Redzone for that team. Their defense has still been good, but it's not the same.

Yes, every team has injuries but the Steelers losing their top 2 guys on the depth chart at DE and Polamalu has hurt their team more than the Bengals.

Exactly.

Also, the assertion that that the Bengals' 9-3 record is largely the result of beating up on mediocre/poor divisional foes doesn't hold water, IMO.

As a point of comparison, the AFC East isn't exactly murderer's row.The 7-5 Patriots should be running away with this division, but, as of now, they are not.

According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.

[Sea Ray]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-with-arians/

A legitimate question Steeler fans and Steeler haters alike should be asking:

Why are the Steelers not utilizing Dennis Dixon as the Browns are utilizing Joshua Cribbs?

Just curious.

Hmmm. Florio must be reading Redszone and taking his tips from that Sea Ray guy. He's not blaming injuries. He's blaming the O-coordinator

[Sea Ray]

According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.

Sagrin can't really figure strength of schedule because a team in Sept isn't the same team as Dec. The Steelers are a great example. They were a much better team when the Bengals beat them. The Titans are much better now than Sept. Ditto for the Chargers. If not for the Bengals, the Steelers and Ravens would be playoff contenders now. Those losses took a toll on them.

This has not been an easy schedule although there have been tougher ones

[traderumor]

Keith Rivers isn't that big of a loss, IMO. Have you ever seen him dominate any game he's played in? In fact, he's been dominated more (see Hines Ward) than make any type of dominating impact.

Roy Williams: Really? Was he THAT big of a loss?

Chris Henry: He did basically nothing this year.

Peko: One of the bigger losses on the team. He'll be back, but the Bengals need him there.

Kelly: IMO, THE biggest loss on the team this year. Don't underestimate what he means to the running game.

Odom: Obviously a big loss, but Fanene and others have stepped up so no big loss there. 1 more injury there, and the Bengals are hurting.


Polamalu is one of the best players on defense in the NFL. The Steelers secondary, sans Troy, has always been questionable, but he changes EVERYTHING on that defense. He hasn't been the sole reason why they've struggled, but a HUGE part. Where it really hurts is the Redzone for that team. Their defense has still been good, but it's not the same.

Yes, every team has injuries but the Steelers losing their top 2 guys on the depth chart at DE and Polamalu has hurt their team more than the Bengals.



According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.

The Bengals are just playing the games the NFL scheduled for them. Strength of schedule arguments are fussing about the luck of the draw. Making conclusions about what it means is even shakier.

[cincrazy]

Injuries didn't cause Roethlisberger to be sacked 8 times by a team that only had 24 coming into the game. Troy P was a big injury but there's more to it than that.

What's their O-coordinator up to putting ben in shot gun on third and one with those kind of weather conditions on Thursday Night?

This is not the same team it was earlier in the year.

Oh there's no question that it's not the same team as it was earlier in the year. My only argument is that they're not "quitting." Maybe they're discouraged and down on their luck, but I don't think anyone is giving less of an effort. They have serious problems, and they've had them all year. The problems are finally catching up to them. Lack of a consistent run game, bad offensive line, QB who holds the ball to long, and an injury plagued defense. I know that you can't use injuries as the only excuse, but they lost one of the best defensive end's in the game in Aaron Smith, and arguably the best safety in football in Polamalu.

[WebScorpion]

Personally, I think Big Ben has become the new Steve Young. He can't play more than a few games without getting another concussion. Ever since the motorcycle accident (try driving your head through a windshield from the outside at 35mph+) he's become a concussion risk. It's a medical fact that each successive concussion makes you more of a concussion risk than the previous one. Then after he gets decked a few times he doesn't seem to think as quickly. Most NFL QBs get rid of the ball just before they get clobbered, so any delay makes a huge difference. I think his career will be drastically shortened. It's a shame because he was the most durable QB I'd seen in a while. Wear a helmet kids!

[camisadelgolf]

What bugs me is that concussions are going to end Worthlessberger's career prematurely, and then everyone is going to exaggerate what a great career he would've had when in reality, he's nowhere near as good of a quarterback as the ones he will be compared to.

And yes, I'm very, very biased.