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Thread: who's in left?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    who's in left?

    In 2009 LF was mostly manned by Gomes & Nix. Both are gone.

    In house candidates:
    Dickerson (L)
    Balentien
    Heisey
    Francisco (L)
    Frazier
    Dorn(L)

    Personally I only want Dickerson in LF if its for late inning defense or if the usual left fielder is hurt. If he can't start in CF then he is a bench player.

    I known Balentien did ok last year & has some supporters here. For me he is a dark horse starter candidate.

    Heisey is supposedly pencilled in as #1 on the depth chart. Didn't exactly tear up AAA.

    Francisco & Frazier are both felt to need more time in AAA.

    Dorn would be a super dark horse candidate.

    Plan #1: go to spring training with the candidates above & see who wins the job

    Plan #2: get a big stud left fielder via free agency. not gonna happen

    Plan #3: sign Nix, Ryan Church or some other cheap left handed vet as a backup plan in case Hesiey, Francisco & Frazier start in AAA. Platoon Balentien with the new guy until one of the 3 prospects is ready.

    Plan #4: ???
    .

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  3. #2
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Wasn't this the big question last off season?

    As much as I disagree with the teams decision on Gomes they did do a nice job of proving many of us wrong by replacing Dunns production with what was basically junk from the top of the scrap heap last year.If the FO had done a better job of filling the CF position last off season I'd probably have a little more faith that they will be able to once again surprise most of us and fill the LF position this year with something decent.

    My guess is Heisey and Fransico will both get a good shot unless someone comparable to what Nix or Gomes was last year is brought in.

    I hate the fact that this Taveras guy remains a part of the team and that I have even herd suggestions that last years poor performance was more then likely due to some nagging injuries.Not that he will get any time in LF but him getting time in CF could effect what happens here.

  4. #3
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    .
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #4
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    I'd re-sign Nix, and semi-platoon him with Heisey. I'd consider trading Balentein to Pittsburgh for Ronny Cedeno. And of course I'd platoon Stubbs and Dickerson in CF and play Bruce in RF.

    Right at this moment it's Dickerson, Stubbs, Bruce, Balentein and Taveras out there.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  6. #5
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Dickerson and Stubbs should be able to get you at least a .375 OBP at the top of the lineup in CF if you truly platoon them. They both play great defense as well, so if Dusty manages them right CF should be strong.

    This team needs Jay Bruce to bust this year. If he preforms anywhere near potential, then LF doesn't become as near of a big of a deal. If Jay preforms, CF, RF, 1B, 2B, and 3B all should be above average to better.

    I really doubt we bring Nix back if we didn't bring Gomes back. It would make absolutely no sense to me at all. Gomes was the better half of the platoon, and Nix kind of went down the crapper after the first couple months.

    Ideally, I'd like to see Frazier at 2B with Phillips at SS to start the season, but I've long given up on that dream. Besides, I think both he and Francisco start the year in the minors as it is.

    That leaves Balentin and Heisey. IF Heisey pans out, he would seem perfect to slide into the 2 spot behind Dickerson/Stubbs and before Votto. Good contact and on base guy. As mentioned before, he didn't exactly prove he could hit AAA pitching well yet. Balentin was actually decent in 100+ ABs last year, but he showed a better eye and less run production than you would expect. I think you'll see less power and more OB from Stubbs and more power and less OB from Balentin.

    To me, ideally Heisey comes out in spring and wins the job because he slots well into the lineup and is an all-around hitter.

    Dickerson/Stubbs
    Heisey
    Votto
    Rolen/Phillips
    Bruce
    Phillips/Rolen

    wouldn't be a bad top 6. Still desperatley need a SS, but for some crazy reason I doubt that happens. The last thing I want to see is Taveras in CF and Stubbs/Dickerson in LF, or really Taveras in the lineup at all.

  7. #6
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Dickerson and Stubbs should be able to get you at least a .375 OBP at the top of the lineup in CF if you truly platoon them. They both play great defense as well, so if Dusty manages them right CF should be strong.

    This team needs Jay Bruce to bust this year. If he preforms anywhere near potential, then LF doesn't become as near of a big of a deal. If Jay preforms, CF, RF, 1B, 2B, and 3B all should be above average to better.

    I really doubt we bring Nix back if we didn't bring Gomes back. It would make absolutely no sense to me at all. Gomes was the better half of the platoon, and Nix kind of went down the crapper after the first couple months.

    Ideally, I'd like to see Frazier at 2B with Phillips at SS to start the season, but I've long given up on that dream. Besides, I think both he and Francisco start the year in the minors as it is.

    That leaves Balentin and Heisey. IF Heisey pans out, he would seem perfect to slide into the 2 spot behind Dickerson/Stubbs and before Votto. Good contact and on base guy. As mentioned before, he didn't exactly prove he could hit AAA pitching well yet. Balentin was actually decent in 100+ ABs last year, but he showed a better eye and less run production than you would expect. I think you'll see less power and more OB from Stubbs and more power and less OB from Balentin.

    To me, ideally Heisey comes out in spring and wins the job because he slots well into the lineup and is an all-around hitter.

    Dickerson/Stubbs
    Heisey
    Votto
    Rolen/Phillips
    Bruce
    Phillips/Rolen

    wouldn't be a bad top 6. Still desperatley need a SS, but for some crazy reason I doubt that happens. The last thing I want to see is Taveras in CF and Stubbs/Dickerson in LF, or really Taveras in the lineup at all.
    Against LHP it would rake. Against RHP its a line-up full of crud. Lead-off would be OK and the 3 spot would be strong. The clean-up guy would provide power, it remains to be seen how consistently or whether he could get on base enough. Rolen will probably get on base about 34% of the time with little power and Philips and Heiesy would be likely to be sub-700 OPS guys against RH pitching.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #7
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    That's why Bruce is so important.

    Dickerson has a career .845 OPS against RHP, that's better than ok.
    Votto's career OPS vs. RPH is .946, we all know he is good.
    Bruce's OPS for his career against RHP is .848, which actually isn't too bad to begin with.

    The 2 and 4 spots would definatley be concerns, but with those 3 guys I wouldn't say the lineup is full of crud.

  9. #8
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    That's why Bruce is so important.

    Dickerson has a career .845 OPS against RHP, that's better than ok.
    Votto's career OPS vs. RPH is .946, we all know he is good.
    Bruce's OPS for his career against RHP is .848, which actually isn't too bad to begin with.

    The 2 and 4 spots would definatley be concerns, but with those 3 guys I wouldn't say the lineup is full of crud.
    Dickerson's career OPS is fueled by his 2008 hot debut. Exactly why I don't use career stats. He's probably good for .785 against RHP and sub .600 vs. LHP.

    Votto is a stud. No argument there.

    Bruce needs to get on base and hit with power more consistently. With no threats behind him and spotty track record of plate disciplne (less than a 10% walk rate as a minor leaguer), I'm not convinced that we've seen the last of the overanxious, reaching, pop-up hitting lazy fly ball machine.

    People talk about the future and that is the exact reason Gomes should have been retained. Heisey, Francisco, Frazier, Cozart and Alonso all need more time in AAA and Bruce in particular needs a real threat to cover his back in the line-up. The reason to keep Gomes for one season is because of the youth movement, not instead of it.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #9
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Dickerson still managed a .378 OBP vRHP last year.

    Either Phillips or Rolen should be hitting behind Bruce this year, which is about as much of a threat as you'll get in the Reds lineup, definatley more so than Gomes would be. I don't know if protection is the reason he's been bad vLHP though, and that is the only time Gomes would be behind him.

    Fair enough on the last point.

  11. #10
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Who is on first. Cheap free agent/Francisco/ Heisey is in left.

  12. #11
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Dickerson still managed a .378 OBP vRHP last year.

    Either Phillips or Rolen should be hitting behind Bruce this year, which is about as much of a threat as you'll get in the Reds lineup, definatley more so than Gomes would be. I don't know if protection is the reason he's been bad vLHP though, and that is the only time Gomes would be behind him.

    Fair enough on the last point.
    Bruce was obviously trying to deliver the knock-out punch with every swing. Many times that happens to a young player because he doesn't think there is anyone else capable of doing it coming up after him. The team traded Dunn and Griffey and I'm guessing he felt it was up to him now. Phillips and Rolen aren't the guys for that job. But you are correct that Gomes may not be either. The thing is, if the Reds can't afford to pay Gomes $3 Million after he put up an .879 OPS (and over .850 vs RHP BTW) then they aren't going to be able to bring in anyone any better for the job. Gomes was the best they had and better than anyone they are likely to be able to get unless they reverse course and make some deals to restructure the salary.

    Also, even if the Reds had Babe Ruth hitting behind Bruce, its no guarantee that he'd get over it (see Patterson, Corey), but it likely increases the chances of him straightening himself out, learning that he doesn't have to take that dramatic uppercut every swing and find his groove for the next 15 years. Even if it only improves his chances a little bit, I want the Reds to give him every possible chance to become this team's mainstay.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    How about this idea? Go ahead and move Votto to LF now and sign a 1B on the cheap. Talk about a glutted market. Nick Johnson, Aubrey Huff, Carlos Delgado, Jason Giambi, Jack Cust, Russell Branyan, Hank Blalock, Ryan Garko, Adam Laroche, Jim Thome, Chad Tracy. There are more of those out there than spots available and just about any one of them would instantly be the team's 2nd best bat. If the Reds can get one on the cheap on a one year deal, then the production is supplemented and the move is out of the way by the time Alonso arrives.

    It also settles the matter and makes guys like Heisey and Francisco clear trade bait to get more pitching or help up the middle at C or SS. Maybe a lefty to platoon with Heisey in 2010 with Votto moving between LF and 1B to ease the transition and give one of the older (Del Gado, Giambi, Thome), more brittle (Tracy, Johnson, Blalock) or just big split guys (Laroche, Branyan) ample and/or appropriate time off. Of course its Cincy, so we'll have to take the left-over who can't hook-on to limit the cost and get them to come here.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I really doubt we bring Nix back if we didn't bring Gomes back. It would make absolutely no sense to me at all. Gomes was the better half of the platoon, and Nix kind of went down the crapper after the first couple months.
    Except Nix also had some pretty good power last year (26 doubles in a little more than 300 abs), is better defensively than Gomes, and would be cheaper than Gomes as well. I'm not saying that's he's all that but to say goodbye to both Nix and Gomes is something I just don't understand.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  15. #14
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Heisey or maybe Ryan Church. Ryan Garko is also a possibility.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  16. #15
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who's in left?

    Looking at the list, its possible that Adam LaRoche ends up with no chair when the music stops. He may be forced to sign a real low dollar deal where he can get it.

    VS RHP

    Dickerson CF
    Rolen 3B
    Votto LF
    Bruce RF
    Laroche 1B
    Phillips 2B
    Hernandez/Hanigan C
    Janish or your Grandmother SS

    VS LHP

    Stubbs CF
    Heisey LF
    Votto 1B
    Rolen 3B
    Phillips 2B
    Bruce RF
    Hernandez/Hanigan C
    Janish or your Grandmother SS

    In July, Laroche is dealt to a team looking for his skills or becomes a nice bench bat and Alonso takes over his role as 1B vs. RHP.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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