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Thread: Bengals Offensive Woes

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Bengals Offensive Woes

    This offense has a huge problem with its passing game.

    Problem #1 can't be fixed right away and that's the coaching. I want to see both Bratkowski and the receivers coach Mike Sheppard gone. All of our WRs have underachieved this year except for Chad. Out of Caldwell, Coles, Purify, Simpson and Cosby this team can't find a decent #2 to Chad. They can't all suck. Maybe there's a coaching component.

    Problem #2 is the O-line. This is not a pass blocking O-line. Lines rarely can do both and this one is a run blocking line and that's the way it'll stay until we get a more athletic LT.

    However Palmer's sacks are not only due to the line. They're due to his WRs not getting open and the defenses he's facing stacking the line.

    So for the immediate future I propose de-activating Lavernes Coles. What can it hurt? Then activate Jerome Simpson and let's see him on the field. We need help at WR and it's time he contribute.

    Then I want to see some plays designed with Purify and Simpson as the primary receivers. It's there for the taking. Defenses are keying on Chad.

    Bratkowski is to blame for the predictable playcalling and the lack of discipline (penalties) of this offense. You saw what happened when he threw a new play out there yesterday on our only TD. Why can't we see more of that? A couple years ago we beat the Ravens on a flea flicker. Why haven't we seen the play again?

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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    I've wanted Bratkowski gone since the 2006 season.

    No matter what style of offense they run, he gets them dug into a predictable rut and teams might as well be in the huddle at times. Sadly, if they've stuck with him this long, I'm really not optimistic that they'll make a change after this season, especially since they're likely to make the playoffs.

    I agree about the receivers too, they say Chad is the hardest worker and most self driven (when he isn't sulking or holding out) one on the team so it half makes me wonder if his success is due more to his own self discipline in preparing than any coaching help. Because all of the other receivers are struggling.

    I'm also worrying about Carson's arm. On the throws he has made lately half of them haven't been anywhere near the receiver and at time they just have a complete lack of "zip" on them that you expect from Carson. I hope they didn't make a mistake by not having him get Tommy John Surgery.

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    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    I don't think Carson and Coles have developed a good feel for each other yet as they have only been together for 1 season. I too am very disappointed in Coles as we are paying him 7 million for what 33 catches. However deactivating him would be a poor move as Coles is viewed positively by other players and is a leader in the locker room.

    I would like to see some hurry up and no huddle sets for the Bengals to fix things. Still no play action from Carson and with the way he is handing off that may be the issue. Also Carson's balls especially on sideline throws don't have the zip they once had. He says his elbow is fine but I am starting to wonder.

    How big of a bust is Simpson who basically hasn't gotten on the field in 2 seasons.
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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I don't think Carson and Coles have developed a good feel for each other yet as they have only been together for 1 season. I too am very disappointed in Coles as we are paying him 7 million for what 33 catches. However deactivating him would be a poor move as Coles is viewed positively by other players and is a leader in the locker room.

    I would like to see some hurry up and no huddle sets for the Bengals to fix things. Still no play action from Carson and with the way he is handing off that may be the issue. Also Carson's balls especially on sideline throws don't have the zip they once had. He says his elbow is fine but I am starting to wonder.

    How big of a bust is Simpson who basically hasn't gotten on the field in 2 seasons.

    I think benching Coles sends a message of accountabilty to the rest of the team. "We don't care how long you've been in the league or how much you make; if you don't produce you're benched".

    If Simpson can't contribute as of now then they ought to cut him.

    I wonder if any other healthy non rookie has been inactive all year?

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    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    I think another thing that we have been hitting on for a few weeks is predictability. The fact of the matter is if you put all of us Bengal fans in a room to watch a game we could tell you the play Brat is going to run before the snap of the ball. You gotta figure that if we can do that than other teams with a lot of tape could do the same thing.

    I haven't seen Palmer throw the long ball in a while makes me think his elbow is still in rough shape. Brat said today he doesn't think Plamer's elbow is bad yet the evidence is pretty clear and other teams pick up on it as well.

    I can understand where SeaRay is coming from and I think if Henry was still here Coles would be the third unfortunately we don't have anyone else that is getting open consistently besides Chad. There has to be a reason that Coles and Caldwell can't find any room underneath. I think I know the answer, Carson can't throw deep anymore.
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Here are a couple things I would do if I was running this team:

    *Get the running backs more involved in the passing game other than screens and check downs. Put Leonard in at fullback on some sets and run some stuff for him. He is capable to lead block for Ced, so we wouldn't have to run all pass plays out of a set like this. Maybe even line up Leonard in the slot a couple times.

    *Take more shots deep. I understand that in order for us to do this we have to keep about 7 guys in to block, but do it anyways. I don't care if Ocho/Coles are in double coverage, throw it anyways. At least make the defense aware of the fact that we will throw it long on occasion.

    *If a player commits a mental penalty (false starts, late hits, offsides, face masks) make them run about 5 miles. These penalties have to stop because we are not good enough to overcome them.

    *Take the wraps off of Jerome Simpson. Right now at WR, we basically have Chad an no one else. Coles didn't even have a catch Sunday and I'm not even sure if a ball was thrown his way. Marvin says Simpson has some skills, but if he can't get into the rotation now, I doubt he will ever be able to.

    *Lastly, we have to get more creative. There are a lot more things we can do on offense to mask our weak pass-blocking O-line. Slants (why we don't run more of these is a complete mystery to me), draws (will at least keep the D honest), TE screens, fake reverses, and so on and so forth. Outside of Chad, the Bengals don't have the players at wide receiver that can consistently beat people man on man. We just don't have the talent at that position. We have to do some things that are going to confuse the defense. Otherwise, I don't see us getting over this hump offensively.
    Last edited by Playadlc; 12-14-2009 at 06:14 PM.
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    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    All of these great ideas make too much sense. There's no way Bratkowski could comprehend any of it.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Chris Henry was the 1st string receiver for a reason. I think there is a direct correlation. He got "open" more than the bench wormers we are throwing to now. The defense respected him more, thus opening up the running game and eliminating the double teams of Chad.

    This team misses Chris Henry.
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    I don't think there's a simple fix to this. I don't like Bratkowski as offensive coordinator, but I don't think he's so ignorant at his job that a couple of people on a message board can fix the problem, yet he can't (not taking a shot at any of you, just stating the man isn't THAT stupid).

    I don't think it's a matter of Palmer being unable to throw deep. He can still throw deep, he just has no deep threats. I wouldn't even classify Chad as a pure deep threat anymore. Also, the line can't block long enough for Palmer to make a seven step drop and throw deep.

    Carson certainly should take some of the blame here, but there's plenty of blame to go around. This passing game is a train wreck.

    Keep in mind, when they drafted Jerome Simpson in the 2nd round, DeSean Jackson from Cal was available, among others. How's that pick looking?

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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Keep in mind, when they drafted Jerome Simpson in the 2nd round, DeSean Jackson from Cal was available, among others. How's that pick looking?
    It's looking like a Bengals pick. What else can we expect?

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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Apparently even Mikey is asking questions about Palmer's health lately, but according to Carson his elbow is "101 percent". I'm still not at ease about it, I never like when players elect to skip surgery for something like elbow ligament damage. That is something that can haunt you and make you eventually do the surgery anyway.

    Also, I though this little tidbit from Carson was interesting:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4743806
    "My elbow is 101 percent," Palmer told ESPN. "My body is great. The Bengals are not protecting me. We went into a tough place [Minnesota] to play and laid an egg. We realize that as a team, an offense, a passing offense and we will bounce back in the passing game. There's nothing wrong with my arm and we're going to come out firing this week."
    I guess we aren't the only ones who notice how awful this line is at pass blocking.

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    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Apparently even Mikey is asking questions about Palmer's health lately, but according to Carson his elbow is "101 percent". I'm still not at ease about it, I never like when players elect to skip surgery for something like elbow ligament damage. That is something that can haunt you and make you eventually do the surgery anyway.

    Also, I though this little tidbit from Carson was interesting:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4743806


    I guess we aren't the only ones who notice how awful this line is at pass blocking.
    I didn't read the article but he might be talking about how people are saying they aren't throwing as much because they are trying to protect his elbow.

  14. #13
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    I hadn't thought of it in that way. You could definitely be right, and it would make more sense with his use of "Bengals" instead of "line".

    You're probably right.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I don't think there's a simple fix to this. I don't like Bratkowski as offensive coordinator, but I don't think he's so ignorant at his job that a couple of people on a message board can fix the problem, yet he can't (not taking a shot at any of you, just stating the man isn't THAT stupid).
    You don't say, Brat isn't stupid. Brat was awful good in 05 when the Bengals had the dynamic offense.

    I don't think it's a matter of Palmer being unable to throw deep. He can still throw deep, he just has no deep threats. I wouldn't even classify Chad as a pure deep threat anymore. Also, the line can't block long enough for Palmer to make a seven step drop and throw deep.

    Carson certainly should take some of the blame here, but there's plenty of blame to go around. This passing game is a train wreck.
    The passing game is a train wreck for a number of reasons. I think the OLine is a good run blocking line but not a good passing line. Carson has been off all season. He has had happy feet more than I have ever seen. He is better on the move but just hasn't played like a top 10 QB. Chad has been good this season, he just can't stretch the field like he used to. The loss of Chris Henry, who many dismissed, has proven to be rather large.

    Keep in mind, when they drafted Jerome Simpson in the 2nd round, DeSean Jackson from Cal was available, among others. How's that pick looking?
    I hate this argument. Its the freakin NFL draft, everything is a crap shoot. There were 31 teams that passed on Jackson and some that passed on him twice. I bet there are 30 teams out there that wished they would have used one of their first 5 rounds of picks to select Tom Brady. I wonder how many teams who passed on Maualuga would want to spend a late 1st round or early 2nd round pick on him now. Heck the Bengals could probably use a do over this season in selecting Harvin instead of Andre Smith.

  16. #15
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals Offensive Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I think another thing that we have been hitting on for a few weeks is predictability. The fact of the matter is if you put all of us Bengal fans in a room to watch a game we could tell you the play Brat is going to run before the snap of the ball. You gotta figure that if we can do that than other teams with a lot of tape could do the same thing.

    I haven't seen Palmer throw the long ball in a while makes me think his elbow is still in rough shape. Brat said today he doesn't think Plamer's elbow is bad yet the evidence is pretty clear and other teams pick up on it as well.

    I can understand where SeaRay is coming from and I think if Henry was still here Coles would be the third unfortunately we don't have anyone else that is getting open consistently besides Chad. There has to be a reason that Coles and Caldwell can't find any room underneath. I think I know the answer, Carson can't throw deep anymore.

    Bratkowski's philosophy is what's at fault here in regards to predictability. His thinking is "we're good and you can't stop us even if you know what we're going to do. We're going to dictate to you , not the other way around."

    I totally disagree with that. I say this is the NFL and the guys on the other side of the ball aren't slouches. I agree with the Bill Walsh way of thinking, "you take what the defense gives you."

    I don't think Palmer's arm is the problem. Bengal receivers just aren't being sent deep nor was Chris Henry early in the year.


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