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Thread: John Lackey signs with...

  1. #16
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    If Gonzo is going to fetch a package of players led by Buchholz, I'd be taking Theo's temperature on Votto.
    why?

    Votto is the last player the Reds should be trading. If the Sox don't get Gonzalez, they will be signing Nick Johnson.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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  3. #17
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    why?

    Votto is the last player the Reds should be trading. If the Sox don't get Gonzalez, they will be signing Nick Johnson.
    If Cincy can turn Votto into multiple useful parts while improving the overall performance of the team, then he should go.

    Walking into 2011 with a rotation of Buchholz, Bailey, Volquez and Cueto with $25MM coming off the books and potentially more if they could launch Cordero with guys like Phillips, Stubbs, Bruce and Alonso in the lineup would be pretty cool.

    If they can get Clay and a couple of other guys, sign me up.

  4. #18
    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    If Cincy can turn Votto into multiple useful parts while improving the overall performance of the team, then he should go.

    Walking into 2011 with a rotation of Buchholz, Bailey, Volquez and Cueto with $25MM coming off the books and potentially more if they could launch Cordero with guys like Phillips, Stubbs, Bruce and Alonso in the lineup would be pretty cool.

    If they can get Clay and a couple of other guys, sign me up.
    Love Votto and Cordero but if, Bucholtz and say Jed Lowrie and Daniel Bard are headed this way along with a OF decent prospect sign me up for that.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

  5. #19
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    If Cincy can turn Votto into multiple useful parts while improving the overall performance of the team, then he should go.

    Walking into 2011 with a rotation of Buchholz, Bailey, Volquez and Cueto with $25MM coming off the books and potentially more if they could launch Cordero with guys like Phillips, Stubbs, Bruce and Alonso in the lineup would be pretty cool.

    If they can get Clay and a couple of other guys, sign me up.
    Does that really make the team better? I get your point and on paper it looks like a good deal, but you are trading away your best player for a bunch of question marks. Alonso better be good and you better be spot on on his projections.

  6. #20
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Does that really make the team better? I get your point and on paper it looks like a good deal, but you are trading away your best player for a bunch of question marks. Alonso better be good and you better be spot on on his projections.
    It has the potential to help more than Votto does on his own. So unless they can go and get more guys to put along side Votto, then there's no point in having him by himself.

    Getting to be in the same spot like we were a few years ago. Dunn, Harang, Arroyo all having trade value and reasonable contracts. We kept them and drowned. If they dealt them and got some good prospects back, this team would look a hell of a lot better.

    We'll probably hold on to Votto like grim death. Hopefully the plan is to add to him within the next 1-2 years. If that is the plan, then he has to be here.

  7. #21
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It has the potential to help more than Votto does on his own. So unless they can go and get more guys to put along side Votto, then there's no point in having him by himself.
    Sure it has the potential to be better than what Votto provides. But it also has the potential to be much worse. Votto last season proved that he can play at an all star level at 1b, which is saying something considering you have 2 MVP's playing in their prime.

    Getting to be in the same spot like we were a few years ago. Dunn, Harang, Arroyo all having trade value and reasonable contracts. We kept them and drowned. If they dealt them and got some good prospects back, this team would look a hell of a lot better.
    I would argue that Votto is an all around better player than those 3. Im not saying that either 3 are slouches, but at one time I think the only player who would have had significant value is Harang. There is always the could of/ should of/ would of aspect to any player.

    We'll probably hold on to Votto like grim death. Hopefully the plan is to add to him within the next 1-2 years. If that is the plan, then he has to be here.
    I would chose to hold onto Votto and build around him. Right now I think he is not only the best player the Reds have but also the best all around player. I think if you trade a young, proven, very good player the haul better be substantial. Not a bunch of if's.

  8. #22
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Sure it has the potential to be better than what Votto provides. But it also has the potential to be much worse. Votto last season proved that he can play at an all star level at 1b, which is saying something considering you have 2 MVP's playing in their prime.
    Sure it does. However, most moves carry risk. Votto proved a lot last year. Very Sean Casey circa 1999ish. The moral? Let's not act as if he is risk-free.

    Votto is great and I'm not advocating aggressively trying to move him. But if the opportunity is there to obtain multiple necessary pieces that would improve the team as a whole, then it should be discussed. Especially with someone in the system who is potentially able to produce at the position.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I would chose to hold onto Votto and build around him. Right now I think he is not only the best player the Reds have but also the best all around player. I think if you trade a young, proven, very good player the haul better be substantial. Not a bunch of if's.
    There's the key. If they are committed to building around him in the short term, then he should be here. But if they are committed to building, but slowly, then Votto might be gone anyway before the build is complete.

    They should have started building with these guys 3 years ago instead of trying to win "now".

  9. #23
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Moves like this.. the Red Sox just grabbing Lackey and Cameron .. are making it more difficult for me to hold interest in this game.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #24
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: John Lackey signs with...

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Moves like this.. the Red Sox just grabbing Lackey and Cameron .. are making it more difficult for me to hold interest in this game.
    Yep. And it keeps getting worse and worse every year.


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