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Thread: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

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  1. #1
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    Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Any volunteers?

    I'll do mine in a few minutes.

  2. #2
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Of all the Reds' minor league clubs?

  3. #3
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    I meant of the positions for the Major League Club. Either do the positions or the pitcher or both. (or anything you like)

    Much of this will be from the minor leagues, of course, especially the 2012 season.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 12-22-2009 at 03:07 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    2010 Major League Club:

    C Hernandez ($3M)
    1B Votto (est $.48M)
    2B Phillips ($6.75M)
    3B Rolen ($7.67M)
    SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
    LF Dickerson (est $.44M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $.45M)
    UI Sutton (est $.44M)
    UO Heisey (est $.4M)

    Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded.

    ---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching

    2011 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.48M)
    1B Votto (est $3M)
    2B Valaika (est $.48M)
    3B Rolen ($8.17M)
    SS Cozart (est $.4M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.48M)
    CF Heisey (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $5M)
    UI Francisco (est $.5M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($.8M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M

    2012 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.53M)
    1B Votto (est $5M)
    2B Valaika (est $.53M)
    3B Francisco (est $.48M)
    SS Cozart (est $.44M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.6M)
    CF Heisey (est $.5M)
    RF Bruce (est $3M)
    UI Soto (est $.4M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($1M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons. Mesoraco takes over as the Starting Catcher in 2013.

    That 2011 and 2012 lineups are courtesy of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky and is loaded with talented players near the peaks of their career (Ages 25-30), while 1 or two years away from either Free Agency or Arbitration. The 2012 squad has a lot of experience on it.

    I do think our Starting Pitching prospects throughout our organization is extremely weak and thin (another reason the Stewart/Roenicke for Rolen trade was illogical). I hope Alonso and Phillips are both traded for Starting Pitching. Hopefully, we can ride Cueto, Volquez and Wood for through 2015. But, that's too risky. We need again that much talent to get us through 2015, as two or three of the six (Wood, Cueto, Volquez and 3 others yet to be determined, but hopefully 2 will be obtained for Phillips, Alonso and Harang/Arroyo) will fail or get seriously injured. It would be a blessing if Buck or Thompson got healthy after their repeated setbacks and could pitch for the Major League club in 2011 and/or 2012.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 12-22-2009 at 03:10 AM.

  5. #5
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    2010 Major League Club:

    C Hernandez ($3M)
    1B Votto (est $.48M)
    2B Phillips ($6.75M)
    3B Rolen ($7.67M)
    SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
    LF Dickerson (est $.44M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $.45M)
    UI Sutton (est $.44M)
    UO Heisey (est $.4M)

    Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded.

    ---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching

    2011 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.48M)
    1B Votto (est $3M)
    2B Valaika (est $.48M)
    3B Rolen ($8.17M)
    SS Cozart (est $.4M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.48M)
    CF Heisey (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $5M)
    UI Francisco (est $.5M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($.8M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M

    2012 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.53M)
    1B Votto (est $5M)
    2B Valaika (est $.53M)
    3B Francisco (est $.48M)
    SS Cozart (est $.44M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.6M)
    CF Heisey (est $.5M)
    RF Bruce (est $3M)
    UI Soto (est $.4M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($1M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons. Mesoraco takes over as the Starting Catcher in 2013.

    That 2011 and 2012 lineups are courtesy of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky and is loaded with talented players near the peaks of their career (Ages 25-30), while 1 or two years away from either Free Agency or Arbitration. The 2012 squad has a lot of experience on it.

    I do think our Starting Pitching prospects throughout our organization is extremely weak and thin (another reason the Stewart/Roenicke for Rolen trade was illogical). I hope Alonso and Phillips are both traded for Starting Pitching. Hopefully, we can ride Cueto, Volquez and Wood for through 2015. But, that's too risky. We need again that much talent to get us through 2015, as two or three of the six (Wood, Cueto, Volquez and 3 others yet to be determined, but hopefully 2 will be obtained for Phillips, Alonso and Harang/Arroyo) will fail or get seriously injured. It would be a blessing if Buck or Thompson got healthy after their repeated setbacks and could pitch for the Major League club in 2011 and/or 2012.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't understand why you have Heisey in CF rather than Stubbs (who is in LF) in 2011 and 2012- care to elaborate?
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
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  6. #6
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    2010

    C Hernandez
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    SS S. Drew
    3B Rolen
    LF Byrnes
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce

    Bench
    Hanigan
    Janish
    Sutton
    Dickerson
    Nix
    Owings (RH pinch hitter)

    Rotation
    Arroyo
    Bailey
    Cueto
    Doug Davis
    Maloney/McDonald or Owings

    Bench
    Maloney/McDonald or Owings (Spot Starter, Long Relief)
    Herrera (LOOGY)
    Lincoln or lesser paid reliever including Fisher, Del Rosario, Ondrusek (MR)
    Burton (MR)
    Rhodes (SU)
    Masset (SU)
    Sherrill (CL)

    Total salaries: $64.4 million, plus $10 million paid to LA Dodgers or $74.4 million

    2010 roster presumes off-season trades of Harang/Taveras and $10 million to Dodgers for Sherrill/McDonald, Cordero to Diamondbacks for Byrnes/S. Drew, and free-agent acquisition of Doug Davis on a two-year contract, $8 million per annum. LF Byrnes would become the highest paid Red at $11.67 million, but if he can't rebound using his speed/power to advantage at GABP, we don't hesitate to bench him and play Dickerson/Nix/Heisey in his place. He's the penance we pay to get S. Drew and get out from under the remainder of Cordero's contract.

    2011

    C Thole (Mets prospect)/Hanigan
    1B Alonso
    2B Frazier
    SS S. Drew
    3B Rolen
    LF Votto
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce

    Bench
    Thole/Hanigan
    Cozart
    Shawn Bowman (Mets 3B prospect from Canada)
    Heisey
    Dickerson

    Rotation
    Bailey
    Volquez
    Doug Davis
    Cueto
    Niese/McDonald/Maloney/Wood

    Bullpen
    Niese/McDonald/Maloney/Wood (Spot Starter, Long Relief)
    Herrera (LOOGY)
    Del Rosario or Ondrusek (MR)
    Bray or Viola (MR)
    Burton (SU)
    Sherrill (SU)
    Masset (CL)

    Roster presumes trade of Arroyo/Phillips to Mets for C Thole, 3B Bowman, SP Niese

    2012

    C Thole/Hanigan
    1B Alonso
    2B Frazier
    SS S. Drew
    3B Neftali Soto/Rolen
    LF Adam Lind
    CF Stubbs
    RF Bruce

    Bench
    Thole/Hanigan
    Cozart
    Soto/Rolen
    Heisey
    Francisco

    Rotation
    Bailey
    Leake
    Volquez
    Cueto
    Niese/McDonald/Wood

    Bullpen
    Niese/McDonald/Wood (Sport Starter, Long Relief)
    Herrera (LOOGY)
    Del Rosario, Ondrusek or Boxberger (MR)
    Bray or Viola (MR)
    Joseph (SU)
    Burton (SU)
    Masset (CL)

    Roster presumes a trade of Votto, Bowman and Sherrill to Blue Jays for Adam Lind and a pack of primo prospects from Toronto's Class A and AA teams

  7. #7
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    I don't understand why you have Heisey in CF rather than Stubbs (who is in LF) in 2011 and 2012- care to elaborate?
    I like Stubbs' arm in LF, and I don't see much difference between the two when "collectively" they are in CF and LF. So, I'd put Heisey in CF.

  8. #8
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    2010 Major League Club:

    C Hernandez ($3M)
    1B Votto (est $.48M)
    2B Phillips ($6.75M)
    3B Rolen ($7.67M)
    SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
    LF Heisey (est $.44M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $.45M)
    UI Sutton (est $.44M)
    UO Dickerson (est $.4M)

    Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded. I agree with this.

    ---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching. I also agree that this will happen unless BP completely bombs next season.

    2011 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.48M)/Hernandez (est $3M) - really believe management likes the platoon situation at catcher.
    1B Votto (est $3M)
    2B Frazier (est $.48M) - I'm surprised you forgot about Frazier
    3B Rolen ($8.17M)
    SS Cozart (est $.4M)
    LF Heisey (est $.48M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $5M)
    UI Janish (est $.5M)
    UO Dickerson (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($.8M) - I agree that Dusty will be let go and they will bring up Sweet, who has coached nearly all these guys through the minors, to manage the club, and I would be fine with this.
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M. I don't think there will be any takers for Rolen ever. The Reds are stuck with him. I'm fine with that other than him declining rapidly in his skills, which I don't see happening considering his professionalism. I'd see Rolen retiring if he felt he couldn't play to a high level anymore.
    2012 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.53M)
    1B Votto (est $5M)
    2B Frazier (est $.53M)
    3B Rolen (est $8M)
    SS Cozart (est $.4M)
    LF Heisey (est $.6M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.5M)
    RF Bruce (est $3M)
    UI Janish (est $.4M)
    UO Dickerson (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($1M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons.

    The only thing that could change all of this to me, is the emergence of Francisco. If Heisey and Stubbs hold their own and continue to improve, we could see an outfield of Heisey (LF), Stubbs (CF), and Bruce (RF), with Dickerson the 4th OFer for a long time. If one of them falters, and Francisco emerges, I could see Votto moved to LF and Francisco placed at 1B.

    My crazy idea is if you can unload Rolen down the road, move Votto to 3B, and play Francisco at 1B. Votto could learn the position in the offseason.

  9. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    2010 Major League Club:
    No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?

  10. #10
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?
    Sorry, Doug. I was tired after doing the hitters. Lot's of Christmas shopping, winning of FFB leagues, etc... (I also get depressed every time I think of the 2011 and 2012 seasons without Stewart).

  11. #11
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?
    I don't see Harang or Arroyo with the team in 2011.

    Off the top of my head...

    1. Bailey
    2. Cueto
    3. Player acquired for Alonso
    4. Volquez
    5. Wood
    6. Leake

  12. #12
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post

    ----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M. I don't think there will be any takers for Rolen ever. The Reds are stuck with him. I'm fine with that other than him declining rapidly in his skills, which I don't see happening considering his professionalism. I'd see Rolen retiring if he felt he couldn't play to a high level anymore.
    It also doesn't help that Rolen has a full no-trade clause.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  13. #13
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    2010 Major League Club:

    C Hernandez ($3M)
    1B Votto (est $.48M)
    2B Phillips ($6.75M)
    3B Rolen ($7.67M)
    SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
    LF Dickerson (est $.44M)
    CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $.45M)
    UI Sutton (est $.44M)
    UO Heisey (est $.4M)

    Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded.

    ---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching

    2011 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.48M)
    1B Votto (est $3M)
    2B Valaika (est $.48M)
    3B Rolen ($8.17M)
    SS Cozart (est $.4M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.48M)
    CF Heisey (est $.44M)
    RF Bruce (est $5M)
    UI Francisco (est $.5M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($.8M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    ----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M

    2012 Major League Club:

    C Hanigan (est $.53M)
    1B Votto (est $5M)
    2B Valaika (est $.53M)
    3B Francisco (est $.48M)
    SS Cozart (est $.44M)
    LF Stubbs (est $.6M)
    CF Heisey (est $.5M)
    RF Bruce (est $3M)
    UI Soto (est $.4M)
    UO Frazier (est $.44M)

    Mgr Sweet ($1M)
    GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

    Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons. Mesoraco takes over as the Starting Catcher in 2013.

    That 2011 and 2012 lineups are courtesy of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky and is loaded with talented players near the peaks of their career (Ages 25-30), while 1 or two years away from either Free Agency or Arbitration. The 2012 squad has a lot of experience on it.

    I do think our Starting Pitching prospects throughout our organization is extremely weak and thin (another reason the Stewart/Roenicke for Rolen trade was illogical). I hope Alonso and Phillips are both traded for Starting Pitching. Hopefully, we can ride Cueto, Volquez and Wood for through 2015. But, that's too risky. We need again that much talent to get us through 2015, as two or three of the six (Wood, Cueto, Volquez and 3 others yet to be determined, but hopefully 2 will be obtained for Phillips, Alonso and Harang/Arroyo) will fail or get seriously injured. It would be a blessing if Buck or Thompson got healthy after their repeated setbacks and could pitch for the Major League club in 2011 and/or 2012.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Now that Cozart has gotten the call, and is hopefully here to stay, thought I'd take a look back at how things are projecting.

    1. Alonso didn't get traded last Winter, as he hadn't generated enough as a trade asset to justify trading him then. He has now. That trade should happen between now and before next season begins.

    2. Phillips also didn't get traded as the REDS were in the thick of the playoff race last year, so it made sense to keep him for last year's run while waiting for Valaika to further develop (who's had a set-back this season).

    3. Francisco's injuries have kept him from being that UI this season which Cairo has been doing for Baker. Plus, Cairo makes better contact, which Baker likes, so that has more to do with it than even the injuries.

    4. Mesoraco has had a crazy development the last year, ever since (was it his hamate bone that needed to heal?) his injury finally got to be put behind him. He certainly looks like the 2nd Catcher with Hanigan for 2012, though that still puts him on base to take over as the Starter in 2013. So, he may actually be right where he's supposed to be. If he takes over as the Starter in 2012 over Hanigan, that would be a huge development. I see it more as a split, especially with Baker as Manager.

    5. Sweet never got the job offer as Baker was resigned.

    6. The need for more Starting Pitching (as yet unnamed at the time, but now named Leake, Bailey, and one more still to be named) is certainly true. As is true that 2 or 3 of those would fail or be injured (Volquez, Arroyo, Bailey even has been injured again, while Cueto missed the first six weeks of the season, while Wood has been sent back down.). Maybe Willis is #6.

    7. The REDS have a huge decision to make: Let Phillips finish out his contract and let him walk after this year or trade him over the next month and get some pitching prospect(s)/veteran starter or reliever. Valaika's slow start this season has made this decision more difficult as has Janish's inability to get on base or hit the ball very hard when he does make contact, as moving Janish over to 2nd doesn't seem like a very good option right now.

    8. Frazier never made the leap as the Utility Outfielder, but the REDS have several who could fill that position in Frazier, Hermida, and Sappelt.

    9. Payroll on Votto and Bruce are higher, as Votto's MVP season guaranteed that, while the REDS secured Bruce for several seasons.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 07-07-2011 at 04:53 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    That is some inexpensive (cheap) payroll with pretty good expectations. It gets expensive in 2013 and 2014. But, for 2011 and 2012, money can be spent on pitching.

  15. #15
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

    2010
    C - Hernandez
    1B - Votto
    2B - BP
    SS - Janish
    3B - Rolen
    LF - Heisey
    CF - Stubbs
    RF - Bruce

    C - Hanigan
    IF - Rosales
    OF - Dickerson
    OF - Taveras
    UT - Sutton

    Mgr - Baker
    GM - Jocketty

    Harang
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Maloney

    Cordero
    Rhodes
    Masset
    Burton
    Herrera
    Owings
    Lincoln

    ---BP gets dealt at the midseason point in '10 if we aren't in the thick of it. If we are still in earshot of a wildcard he won't get dealt at all is my hunch.


    2011
    C - Hanigan
    1B - Votto
    2B - BP
    SS - Cozart
    3B - Rolen
    LF - Alonso
    CF - Heisey
    RF - Bruce

    C - Denove
    IF - Valaika
    OF - Dickerson
    OF - Stubbs
    UT - Frazier

    Mgr - LaRussa
    GM - Jocketty

    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Bailey
    Volquez
    Wood

    Cordero
    Masset
    Herrera
    Fisher
    Ondrusek
    Joseph
    J. Smith


    2012
    C - Hanigan
    1B - Votto
    2B - BP
    SS - Cozart
    3B - Frazier
    LF - Alonso
    CF - Heisey
    RF - Bruce

    C - Denove
    IF - Rolen
    OF - Dickerson
    OF - Stubbs
    UT - Valaika

    Mgr - LaRussa
    GM - Jocketty

    Cueto
    Bailey
    Volquez
    Wood
    Leake

    Masset
    Joseph
    Fisher
    Herrera
    Ondrusek
    J. Smith
    Thurman


    Rolen in a reserve role at best in '12 but somehow I suspect we'll be paying someone no longer contributing much if at all.

    Harangs option not picked up after '10 and neither is Bronsons but they pit the 2 against each other and whoever signs the cheaper contract sticks around for another season. Harang takes his game out west and signs with San Diego for that season.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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