Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

[Vottomatic]

2010 Major League Club:

C Hernandez ($3M)
1B Votto (est $.48M)
2B Phillips ($6.75M)
3B Rolen ($7.67M)
SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
LF Heisey (est $.44M)
CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $.45M)
UI Sutton (est $.44M)
UO Dickerson (est $.4M)

Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded. I agree with this.

---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching. I also agree that this will happen unless BP completely bombs next season.

2011 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.48M)/Hernandez (est $3M) - really believe management likes the platoon situation at catcher.
1B Votto (est $3M)
2B Frazier (est $.48M) - I'm surprised you forgot about Frazier
3B Rolen ($8.17M)
SS Cozart (est $.4M)
LF Heisey (est $.48M)
CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $5M)
UI Janish (est $.5M)
UO Dickerson (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($.8M) - I agree that Dusty will be let go and they will bring up Sweet, who has coached nearly all these guys through the minors, to manage the club, and I would be fine with this.
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M. I don't think there will be any takers for Rolen ever. The Reds are stuck with him. I'm fine with that other than him declining rapidly in his skills, which I don't see happening considering his professionalism. I'd see Rolen retiring if he felt he couldn't play to a high level anymore.
2012 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.53M)
1B Votto (est $5M)
2B Frazier (est $.53M)
3B Rolen (est $8M)
SS Cozart (est $.4M)
LF Heisey (est $.6M)
CF Stubbs (est $.5M)
RF Bruce (est $3M)
UI Janish (est $.4M)
UO Dickerson (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($1M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons.

The only thing that could change all of this to me, is the emergence of Francisco. If Heisey and Stubbs hold their own and continue to improve, we could see an outfield of Heisey (LF), Stubbs (CF), and Bruce (RF), with Dickerson the 4th OFer for a long time. If one of them falters, and Francisco emerges, I could see Votto moved to LF and Francisco placed at 1B.

My crazy idea is if you can unload Rolen down the road, move Votto to 3B, and play Francisco at 1B. Votto could learn the position in the offseason.

[dougdirt]

2010 Major League Club:

No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?

[flash]

After 2010 I think there will be some major changes, so predicting beyond that seems kind of iffy.

Some major disagreements though

Coddington or Manz will make it to the big club before Mesoraco. Both have done considerably better in their brief minor league careers. Look for them both to pass him this year.

No mention is made of Valaika even though Sweet speaks very highly of him.

Same no menion of Henry Rodriguez, Miguel Rojas, Oliveras, Gregorius, or Mendez although some of them may fast track it to the big club.

No mention was made of Klinker, Smit, Valiquette, Ondrusek, Smith, Del Rosario, or Fairel.

Also before Bruce makes any 2012 list he better show he can hit in 2010.

[dougdirt]

Coddington or Manz will make it to the big club before Mesoraco. Both have done considerably better in their brief minor league careers. Look for them both to pass him this year.

Also before Bruce makes any 2012 list he better show he can hit in 2010.

Neither Coddington or Manz will pass up Mesoraco. I like Coddington, but I don't see him passing up Mesoraco who has a ton more power, much more discipline at the plate and really started figuring it out defensively last season while being downright dominant for a 4 month stretch at throwing runners out (48% from the middle of May until his season was over).

As for Bruce.... he will be plenty fine. Those who doubt him now are going to look VERY silly very soon.

[BLEEDS]

What about 2015?!?!?

Seriously, anything beyond 2011 is really pushing it as far as "exercise in futility" is concerned.

I do agree that there will be a lot of rookies/youth in the position players, but a lot of it predicates on the fact that I REALLY don't see much going on in our pitching staff - outside of one (and ONLY one, IMO) of Harang and Arroyo not being here in 2011. I also doubt we're going to find any takers for Cordero before 2012 either, which I'm actually fine with since I expect Bailey, Cueto, Volquez to be here and be cheap so we can afford to keep a Proven Closer (novella postings regarding that discussion not withstanding!).
2012 I can't even begin to speculate, TOO many moving parts, but I'll give my go at 2010 and 2011.

2010:
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS Janish
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
LF Dickerson (with pinched nose!)
C Hernandez

P1 Harang (I REALLY don't see anyone taking him on, not with his declining stats and contract that increases his buy-out, etc; MAYBE a trade deadline deal)
P2 Arroyo
P3 Cueto
P4 Bailey
P5 Owings

Bench:
C Hanigan
OF Balentein
OF Gomes* (please will somebody come to their senses and sign this guy!)
IF Francisco (he gets spot starts at 3B, sinks or swims, Frazier on his heels)
Util Sutton (too versatile not to make roster)

Bullpen:
R Cordero
R Burton
R Masset
L Rhodes
L Bray
L Herrera
R Lincoln (with pinched nose, but I forsee him making the team out of ST)


2011:

1B Votto
2B Valaika (BP is gone, no way we pay him $12M to play 2B; coaches love Valaika, I think Frazier gets traded)
3B Rolen (he's not going anywhere anytime soon)
SS Cozart (can you say "Youth Movement")
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
LF Heisey
C Hernandez (I think they exercise his option, even if he only starts less than half the games as catcher)

P1 Arroyo (yep, I don't care what anyone says, if he can "end up" with a sub 4.00 ERA and a 1.27 WHIP, he gets to pitch on my team for $11M! Sure he's not an ideal #1, but depends on Bailey/Cueto/Volquez; Harang is either traded or not picked up)
P2 Cueto
P3 Bailey
P4 Volquez
P5 Leake (unless we spend the money we are saving on a proven veteran, I think he gets fast-tracked to the Bigs)

Bench:
C Hanigan
OF Dickerson
Util Sutton (again, he's too versatile, until we get more proven/veteran players for the bench)
IF Francisco/Frazier - one of these guys makes this team, the other is traded (Frazier is my guess because he can get more in return)
IF Janish (defensive replacement for Cozart)

Bullpen:
R Cordero (yep, he's expensive luxury, we can afford it because the rest of our roster is so cheap, and we wouldn't spend it wisely if we had it anyways!)
R Burton
R Masset
L Bray
L Herrera
R Fisher
Owings/Maloney/Wood/any number of long-relief/spot starter candidates


I really don't see us making any major moves over the next few years, even though we should. We've got a lot of young guys who are vying for the same positions - Frazier, Valaika, Heisey, Alonso, Francisco - and they have to get some cups of coffee/extended looks so we can make some decisions. I just don't see this FO actually trading a prospect and taking a "risk" they develop. Too conservative. I'd trade Alonso now - maybe with Harang to "sweeten the pot" in order to get a proven LF'er; probably a majority of us would, but it's just not going to happen. Not with this FO. They're too afraid to make a mistake, which is ludicrous given that we're already a 5th place team so there's not much further to fall when you are on the bottom rung anyways!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Kingspoint]

No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?

Sorry, Doug. I was tired after doing the hitters. Lot's of Christmas shopping, winning of FFB leagues, etc... (I also get depressed every time I think of the 2011 and 2012 seasons without Stewart).

[Kingspoint]

No pitchers anywhere? You trade Alonso for a pitcher for the 2011 season, but what is your rotation like that year? Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, X player acquired from Alonso? What happens with Maloney/Wood/Leake/Klinker at that time?

I don't see Harang or Arroyo with the team in 2011.

Off the top of my head...

1. Bailey
2. Cueto
3. Player acquired for Alonso
4. Volquez
5. Wood
6. Leake

[Kingspoint]

No mention is made of Valaika even though Sweet speaks very highly of him.

I've got Valaika starting at 2nd Base in 2011 and 2012.

[Kingspoint]

They're too afraid to make a mistake, which is ludicrous given that we're already a 5th place team so there's not much further to fall when you are on the bottom rung anyways!

There's way too much truth to that.

[BLEEDS]

There's way too much truth to that.

I know, sad isn't it? I mean it's a catch 22 obviously, they don't want to trade a prospect, until they know if he's good or not. If he's good - you then overvalue him and don't want to trade him unless it's for a King's ransom; if he's bad, he's not going to be worth anything to anybody so you're forced to sell low.

With all of the prospects we have, it's time to trade some PROMISE for some PROVEN and go for it. The 2010/2011 window is closing fast, after which we are pretty much solely dependent upon a youth movement. Not a bad thing, but then you are putting all your chips in the youth movement and hoping everyone develops/has a great year versus trying to get a proven veteran or two in to provide some consistency.

Problem is, they can't even commit to that. Sign Coco, trade for Rolen, but then you want to dump salary and go with youth/unproven as well and retreads to replace Adam Dunn in LF.

Don't remember who I read it from first, but I REALLY like the idea of trading Harang packaged with Alonso. Some contenders (*cough* dodgers *cough*) need some starting pitching, and you can dangle Alonso to get folks to take on more of the salary and get back a decent prospect/MLB ready player in return. That's what they should do. If there is anything we are ridiculously full of, it's 1B/LF/3B prospects, there's absolutely NO reason not to trade from a position of severe strength and overabundance at this point.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[HokieRed]

I've got Valaika starting at 2nd Base in 2011 and 2012.

I hope not.

[camisadelgolf]

I hope not.

Why not?

[redsfandan]

----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M. I don't think there will be any takers for Rolen ever. The Reds are stuck with him. I'm fine with that other than him declining rapidly in his skills, which I don't see happening considering his professionalism. I'd see Rolen retiring if he felt he couldn't play to a high level anymore.

It also doesn't help that Rolen has a full no-trade clause.

[Kingspoint]

there's absolutely NO reason not to trade from a position of severe strength and overabundance at this point.

It's the first thing one should do after evaluating both the talent and the management when taking over as a G.M.

Not only balance position-wise, but balance tier-wise, always with the goal of increasing the total number of Top players, as long as they are in different positions or at different levels.

[Kingspoint]

With Valaika, Gomes, Heisey, and Frazier all in the equation for 2011, I thought I'd repost this and see someone else's lists.