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Thread: The Jocketty Files

  1. #16
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The sins of some of the others were that they added payroll and significant commitments and showed nothing for it.
    Do you mean contracts like those given to Taveras and Lincoln?

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  3. #17
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Do you mean contracts like those given to Taveras and Lincoln?
    Please. Those are nothing. The funny thing is while everyone is aware of the big immovable 3, there were plenty of Taveras/Lincoln types that were brought on in the previous regime. Gonzo and Stanton are two that spring to mind.

    If the greatest sins of a GM cost $10MM during a rebuild, then so be it. It's better than dishing out over $100MM in 2+ years and having nothing to show for it.

  4. #18
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Please. Those are nothing. The funny thing is while everyone is aware of the big immovable 3, there were plenty of Taveras/Lincoln types that were brought on in the previous regime. Gonzo and Stanton are two that spring to mind.

    If the greatest sins of a GM cost $10MM during a rebuild, then so be it. It's better than dishing out over $100MM in 2+ years and having nothing to show for it.
    All GM's have warts, let's not pretend that Walt hasn't kissed a couple of toads.

  5. #19
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Other than Gonzo and Stanton (I was against both those deals) the other guys gave us at least some production.

    I don't believe it's a sin to pay for production.

  6. #20
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    He still hasn't honestly added a real long term impact player for this franchise. If the Reds are going to be successful, it will be due to players that were basically already here.

  7. #21
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Other than Gonzo and Stanton (I was against both those deals) the other guys gave us at least some production.

    I don't believe it's a sin to pay for production.
    You can argue that Harang hasn't earned his extension to this point either.

  8. #22
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    I really don't want to bash on Jocketty, I hope he is sucessful in his time here.

    Walt hasn't added a whole lot so far but that doesn't mean he wont.

  9. #23
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    He still hasn't honestly added a real long term impact player for this franchise. If the Reds are going to be successful, it will be due to players that were basically already here.
    Can't argue that, but has he been in a position to? His tradeable assets have been weighed down by their contracts in the midst of a financial crisis. Look at what Javy Vazquez just fetched...little in the way of long term impact.

    Not many teams are dealing legit cheap talent for middle tier vets with contracts of size.

  10. #24
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I really don't want to bash on Jocketty, I hope he is sucessful in his time here.

    Walt hasn't added a whole lot so far but that doesn't mean he wont.
    I am really hoping that he gets more aggressive once he has some flexibility. Next year looks great on paper. If the can unload Cordero, it will be even better. Hopefully they use the savings on talent.

    If they don't, then it is useless.

  11. #25
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Walt's job is to figure out how to use his young talent to form a winning team.

    Dan and Wayne brought in much of the young talent. Walt has to mold it into a winning club.

    The next two years will tell the tale.

    Next year at AAA there should be Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Valaika, Wood, Heisey, Cozart. That's a big part of the team's talent base.

    Walt has to figure out how to use these assets as trade pieces or as parts of the Reds.

    Walt has avoided the temptation to trade these guys so far, but soon he has to make decisions that must result in a winning team. That is his main job, making the right decision on the young talent base. We'll know soon enough if he succeeds.

  12. #26
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    All GM's have warts, let's not pretend that Walt hasn't kissed a couple of toads.
    Sure he has, but the effect on the overall health of the franchise hasn't been material. My view all along has been for the team to start to get aggressive when this crop of prospects (Bruce/Votto/Homer/Cueto/etc) got close to the "ready for prime time" stage. He definitely crapped out on Lincoln and Taveras, but those signings wouldn't affect the long-term like some of the other moves have. With the benefit of hindsight, the Cordero signing set this team further back than the Lincoln signing. Cordero has been great, but the $22MM he has been given could have been used in better ways than an aging closer on a crap team.

  13. #27
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Walt's job is to figure out how to use his young talent to form a winning team.

    Dan and Wayne brought in the young talent. Walt has to mold it into a winning club.

    The next two years will tell the tale.

    Next year at AAA there should be Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Valaika, Wood, Heisey, Cozart. That's a big part of the team's talent base.

    Walt has to figure out how to use these assets as trade pieces or as parts of the Reds.

    Walt has held onto all these guys so far, but soon he has to make decisions that must result in a winning team. That is his main job. We'll know soon enough if he succeeds.
    Yep. Nothing is better than having $10MM talent at $500k prices. That's the key for non-$100MM payroll teams. Guys like Votto and Cueto providing good production at cut rate prices only works when the real money is spent wisely. And that's the current problem.

  14. #28
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Walt Jocketty has been a huge failure up to this point. Wayne Krivsky, while not a genius, did a much better job than Jocketty has done up to this point.

  15. #29
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Walt Jocketty has been a huge failure up to this point. Wayne Krivsky, while not a genius, did a much better job than Jocketty has done up to this point.
    They both are awful.

  16. #30
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I am really hoping that he gets more aggressive once he has some flexibility.
    We hear some version of this tune evey other year.

    Once Miltons money is off the books we can...

    Once LaRues money is off the books we can...

    Once Caseys money is off the books we can...

    Once Griffeys money is off the books we can...

    Once Dunns money is off the books we can...

    Excuse me for say'n I'm tired of listening to it.


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