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Thread: The Jocketty Files

  1. #31
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Can't argue that, but has he been in a position to? His tradeable assets have been weighed down by their contracts in the midst of a financial crisis. Look at what Javy Vazquez just fetched...little in the way of long term impact.

    Not many teams are dealing legit cheap talent for middle tier vets with contracts of size.
    I agree.... he wasn't exactly in a position to be adding established types of players, or high end prospects for that matter. But, Walt hasn't been particularly proactive in taking some risks on some of the lower end roster players. The Reds being fairly non-competitive, are in a position that they could be filling up parts of the bench, or perhaps even offering partial playing time opportunities to some young players that have failed in other organizations.

    One such guy he did pick up was Balentin, and I think that is the right type of move that he should be exploring more often. Those types of guys can be had, and you know, it's not that surprising when they develop into meaningful players. The best thing Kriv ever did was turning nothing into something (I'm not meaning to bait you). For all the faults he had, that is one area that he had right, and it came at no cost to the other areas of the team.

    Walt has done a very good job for the most part in excercising patience, sticking to the rebuilding effort, and not strap himself with future contracts. And rightfully so, that was Kriv's biggest downfall and the reason that he shouldn't be GM.

    So honestly, I don't think it would take much for a combined approach (as in the best of each world, not signing bad players to LTD's and adding no talent lol). In the end, baseball is set-up based on contracts and roster positions that it is very much possible to turn another team's failed prospect into a successful project. So I dont think there's much of an excuse for the void of building blocks, or even mildly interesting talent that has been added during his tenure.

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  3. #32
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    I don't blame Walt for this. We all knew the kind of GM Walt was before he showed up. He specializes in big trades, the Reds aren't going to make any of those big trades. If you were expecting Walt to make a bunch of under the radar deals while shoring up the farm system, you were way off base.

    I think Bob brought him aboard with the intention of spending more money, but an economic recession and reality kept him from doing so, and this is what we have.

  4. #33
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Somehow I managed to miss a few here as retro sheet didn't have all of them. I'll keep looking just in case I still might have missed something.


    December 9th 2008:
    Traded Ryan Freel, Justin Turner & Brandon Waring for Ramon Hernandez and cash

    July 29th 2009:
    Traded Robert Manuel for Wladimir Balentein

    And of course Ramon's re-signing.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  5. #34
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I agree.... he wasn't exactly in a position to be adding established types of players, or high end prospects for that matter. But, Walt hasn't been particularly proactive in taking some risks on some of the lower end roster players. The Reds being fairly non-competitive, are in a position that they could be filling up parts of the bench, or perhaps even offering partial playing time opportunities to some young players that have failed in other organizations.

    One such guy he did pick up was Balentin, and I think that is the right type of move that he should be exploring more often. Those types of guys can be had, and you know, it's not that surprising when they develop into meaningful players. The best thing Kriv ever did was turning nothing into something (I'm not meaning to bait you). For all the faults he had, that is one area that he had right, and it came at no cost to the other areas of the team.
    I agree. But I think dumpster diving has become even more expensive over the past few years. Every team wants cheep, young, good talent and the price keeps going up. IMO Walt over his career has been very good at judging minor league talent. Figuring out who is legit and who is over rated. Taking the over rated minor leaguers and trading them for bonified major league talent.

    I do think a team like the Reds should be active dumpster divers. But at the same time a player like Balentin isn't free. The Reds had to give up something in order to get him. It may have been a fringe major league bull pen arm, but he wasn't free.

    Walt has done a very good job for the most part in excercising patience, sticking to the rebuilding effort, and not strap himself with future contracts. And rightfully so, that was Kriv's biggest downfall and the reason that he shouldn't be GM.
    That may have been Walt's most important job. Building from inside, resist the urge to trade prospects even as the fans grow more restless. The only prospect of any value that Walt moved was Stewart. He has done a good job keeping keeping a core group of young players together.

    To be honest I think Krivsky is a very good person to have in your organization. He has a good eye for young talent and more often than not was able to acquire that talent on the cheap. If he were director of minor league operations I would be ecstatic. However as an overall GM I think he was lacking. I think he had trouble balancing everything on an organizational level. I think Jocketty does a very good job of seeing the big picture. I think Cast sees it that way which I think is why Jocketty is here and being provided quite a big more leeway than the prior GM's.

  6. #35
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Walt Jocketty has been a huge failure up to this point. Wayne Krivsky, while not a genius, did a much better job than Jocketty has done up to this point.
    Do you feel this way about Jocketty just b/c he traded Z. Stewart?

  7. #36
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Do you feel this way about Jocketty just b/c he traded Z. Stewart?
    Umm, no.

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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I don't blame Walt for this. We all knew the kind of GM Walt was before he showed up. He specializes in big trades, the Reds aren't going to make any of those big trades. If you were expecting Walt to make a bunch of under the radar deals while shoring up the farm system, you were way off base.

    I think Bob brought him aboard with the intention of spending more money, but an economic recession and reality kept him from doing so, and this is what we have.
    My guess is that Walt told Bob that in your market the key is building with youth which is a long process requiring patience. The objective is to have a decent ballclub to keep the fans reasonably happy until the kids are ready.

    The first batch of kids was the Votto/Cueto/Bruce/Bailey/Volquez group. But it's not enough. The next batch of kids is the Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Wood, Heisey, Cozart group.

    So we are about ready to see what Walt has and how he uses these pieces. I won't trash him for being patient and recognizing that the team's key assets are very young players.

    But we are now at the point where he has to make it work. He moved Stewart and Roenicke for a veteran. He now has to decide how to use these other pieces, or how to trade them for useful players who fit the team's needs.

    Of course, the years march on and now Harang and Arroyo have one year left on their deals. This presents another challenge. Do you get value for these guys now or do you let them play out the string, trade them at the deadline, let them go for draft choices, or try to re-sign one or both?

    So, Walt's time is coming. We'll know soon. But I think it's premature to judge now.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-24-2009 at 01:10 PM.

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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Umm, no.
    Then why do you feel Jocketty is a failure?

  10. #39
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Great job, Mario. Here are some possible additions/corrections I have. I don't have the dates, though, unfortunately.

    I believe both Tom Shearn and Justin Lehr's contracts were sold to Korea--I don't think they were released.
    The Reds acquired Tom Collaro and Aaron Herr for future considerations.
    Drew M. Anderson was traded to the Rays for future consideration.
    The Reds received cash considerations for Cody Strait and Carlos Guevara (rule five draft pick).
    Also, at some point in 2009, the Reds bought Mark Pawelek's contract.

    Signed to minor league contracts (I bolded the players with MLB experience):
    Darrick Hale
    Greg Dombrowski
    Jeff Kennard
    Ismael Guillon
    Federico Baez
    Brian Peterson
    Korey Feiner
    Ryan Doran
    David Shafer
    Mark James
    Luis Pardo
    Adam Greenberg
    Jesus Carnevale
    Stephen Chapman
    Kyle Aselton
    Tom Cochran
    Chase Ware
    John Dao
    Tim Crabbe
    Chris Kelly
    Danny Hernandez
    Zach Ward
    Ryan Smith
    Greg Atencio
    Cameron Satterwhite
    Lew Ford
    Albert Laboy
    Chris Burke
    Po-Cheng Chi
    Brandon Yarbrough
    Kevin West
    Chad Reineke
    Arshwin Asjes
    Sean Danielson

    Francisco Lizarraga was selected in the minor league portion of the rule five draft and loaned to Mexico. Doug Salinas was selected in this year's portion of the minor league rule five draft. Terrell Young was selected in last year's rule five draft and returned to the Reds. Henry Arias was lost in the minor league portion, and Ben Jukich was taken by the Cardinals this year.

    Marcus McBeth was taken by the Red Sox on waivers.

    Released/Granted Free Agency (I bolded the players with MLB experience):
    Kevin Gunter
    Luis Soto
    Chandler Power
    Tom Fiebig
    James Morris
    Angel Cabrera
    Tom Collaro
    Brett Bartles
    Hugo Calderon
    Tyler Rhoden
    Frank Meade
    Eli Rimes
    Anthony Gressick
    Yuber Rodriguez
    Rafael Ceballos
    Juan Rafael
    Efrain Rodriguez
    Jeremy Vinyard
    Dan Zeffiro
    Jamie Arneson
    Todd Waller
    Mike McKennon
    Darrick Hale
    Jacque Jones
    Derrick Conatser
    Enrique Garcia
    Justin James
    Luis Pardo
    Ron Flores
    David Torcise
    Eddy Rodriguez
    Adam Greenberg
    Drew T. Anderson
    Mike DeJesus
    David Shafer
    Dan Perales
    Brandon Menchaca
    Justin Mallett
    Kyle Aselton
    Jesus Carnevale
    Juan Aquino
    Matt Stiffler
    Adam Pettyjohn
    Brian Peterson
    Humberto Sosa
    Tyler Stovall
    Leo Astorga
    Chris Kelly
    Ramon Rodriguez
    Bryan Gardner
    Sergio Guerrero
    Shea Snowden
    Kel Jones
    Jason Louwsma
    Justin Tordi
    Kevin Barker (again)
    Darnell McDonald
    Shaun Cumberland
    Luis Bolivar
    Ben Davis
    Camilo Vazquez
    Jeff Kennard
    Chris Kroski
    Lew Ford
    Korey Feiner
    Wes Bankston
    Greg Atencio

  11. #40
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Great job, Mario. Here are some possible additions/corrections I have. I don't have the dates, though, unfortunately.
    Yeah I didn't have much on the minor league side of things, thanks for the additions. BTW I wondered what happened to that Lizarraga kid is he still Reds property and might we see him again? I thought he was a High-A/AA advanced SS.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  12. #41
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    My guess is that Walt told Bob that in your market the key is building with youth which is a long process requiring patience. The objective is to have a decent ballclub to keep the fans reasonably happy until the kids are ready.

    The first batch of kids was the Votto/Cueto/Bruce/Bailey/Volquez group. But it's not enough. The next batch of kids is the Alonso, Francisco, Frazier, Wood, Heisey, Cozart group.

    So we are about ready to see what Walt has and how he uses these pieces. I won't trash him for being patient and recognizing that the team's key assets are very young players.

    But we are now at the point where he has to make it work. He moved Stewart and Roenicke for a veteran. He now has to decide how to use these other pieces, or how to trade them for useful players who fit the team's needs.

    Of course, the years march on and now Harang and Arroyo have one year left on their deals. This presents another challenge. Do you get value for these guys now or do you let them play out the string, trade them at the deadline, let them go for draft choices, or try to re-sign one or both?

    So, Walt's time is coming. We'll know soon. But I think it's premature to judge now.
    agree with what you say.

    one note: both Aaron & Bronson have club options for 2011
    .

  13. #42
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Then why do you feel Jocketty is a failure?
    Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.

  14. #43
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.
    You just don't get it.

  15. #44
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Maybe because he's been horrible in his tenure with the Reds? Scott Rolen is the best player Jocketty has acquired, and it took a lot to acquire him. Krivsky acquired talents like Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Josh Hamilton for next to nothing. Someone give me a call when Jocketty does something similar. I'd take Dan O'Brien over Jocketty at this point.
    So b/c Krivsky acquired guys like Phillips, Arroyo and Hamilton for pennies on the dollar, that has what to do with Jocketty?

    Jocketty's stuck with Krivsky's team, who was stuck with O'Brien's team. At least Jocketty's shown to have a plan to improve the defense, to which I give him credit. He didn't retain Adam Dunn, which I didn't like, but he did what he felt he had to do in order to begin to improve the Reds. Now if Jocketty could go out and get some pitching to go with the improved defense, we might have something, since right now our offense sucks something awful.

    The only things I'd change in Jocketty's tenure is to have kept Adam Dunn to have some offense to go with Votto, Phillips and now Rolen, and I wouldn't have traded Freel for Hernandez, as I don't like the Hernandez addition, although I liked him moving Freel. I also wouldn't have signed Willy Taveras nor Mike Lincoln. The rest I'm strangely ok with.

    I'm just hoping Jocketty can get creative and add some pitching to this team.

    I like Jocketty more than Krivsky, and I easily like them both more than O'Brien.

  16. #45
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    Re: The Jocketty Files

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    You just don't get it.
    What I don't get is all the excuses for Jocketty while Krivsky was constantly hammered for everything he did. Even Krivsky's good moves were chalked up as luck while people make excuse after excuse for Jocketty. Jocketty has been horrible - far worse than Krivsky. Far worse.


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