Philly fans keep it super classy

[Brutus]

Yeah, a day in jail would probably fix that. The kids--not all of them but a great deal of them--clearly showed poor judgment. Where do you think they learned that? And is flashing a gun in a snowball fight really appropriate? You're pretty much asking for trouble at that point.

I don't agree with flashing the gun, but at the same time, asking for trouble is continuing to do it after they realize it's a cop and he's asked them to stop. To continue doing it is not just disrespectful, it's stupid and, by law, assault of a police officer.

They could have technically been charged with felonies over that stunt. While that would not have been justified, they definitely deserved to be taken in and slapped with a misdemeanor so perhaps they'll learn respect.

And I don't care where they learned it, it's wrong, it's disrespectful and it's unlawful. It's time they're taught some manners.

[camisadelgolf]

Well, we agree in principle, which is that the kids need to be punished for what they did. We just might not agree on how to carry it out. I don't think a day in jail would do much good. The kids need to learn responsibility, but on another note, at what point do you start to put some blame on the people who didn't do their jobs as parents?

[redsfandan]

When I first saw the thread title I had a feeling it would be something like this. Philly isn't alone but the "City of Brotherly Love" is known for booing and throwing snowballs at Santa 40+ years ago during an Eagles game. So things haven't changed that much.

My understanding is that the security and the stadium owners are liable for the safety of anyone attending an event in the facility in any capacity. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. If just one person gets seriously hurt they can end up with a serious lawsuit. Better to play it safe and make sure security is on top of the situation asap.

As far as the cop in the middle of the snowball fight video it doesn't show what happened before the video starts. I remember reading about this and I think the cop got into some trouble but I don't remember how much. I would think that there would be a few bad apples whenever there's a mob of people even if they're just having a snowball fight. Some stupid people showing how stupid they can be. And if some have to be arrested for legitimate reasons so be it. But, from what I know, there was NO reason for an off-duty cop to wave, or even show, his gun. In those kind of conditions someone could get hurt and then that cop, the police department, and the city have a lawsuit on their hands. If the cop needs to call for backup fine but in no case should he escalate the situation, and make the situation worse, especially when he's so outnumbered.

[Tony Cloninger]

No problem in blaming whoever raised some of these kids....so what do you do?

Round them and their parent's up....take them to a town hall meeting and show them the video and then rail into them for their stupidity. Like a public execution...instead it's a public tongue lashing and calling out party.

I am not being facetious about this either. Enough with kids just being kids....how about some accountability from, someone in that crowd.

[jojo]

Guess you've never been to a major college football game or NFL game. When you go to away games in little numbers, you better expect some harassment.

I don't think college football and pro football should be conflated.

College football is such a superior experience, in part because of the extremely family/fan-friendly pageantry and tradition. For instance, SEC football embodies rivalry to the nth degree, yet tailgating is beyond the best possible regardless of team colors. Sure there is an occasional bad apples moment but it pales in comparison to the absolutely chronically poor behavior exhibited at any profootball venue on any given Sunday.

I can't take my daughters to a Bengals game decked out in full bengal's regalia. I can take them tailgating in Baton Rouge, Athens, or Tuscaloosa decked out in full Auburn regalia.....

Personally, I think pro football could end today, and the world would be better for it. It's largely become a venue for idiots to accentuate the poorest parts of their personalities....

[Brutus]

Well, we agree in principle, which is that the kids need to be punished for what they did. We just might not agree on how to carry it out. I don't think a day in jail would do much good. The kids need to learn responsibility, but on another note, at what point do you start to put some blame on the people who didn't do their jobs as parents?

Well, perhaps the parents didn't do their jobs. That's certainly possible. I just don't like the "blame the parents" mindset, because it implies that individuals shouldn't be accountable for their actions. Parents can't control what their kids do. They can only teach them well and hope they learn. I've seen good parents have kids go terribly wrong and bad parents have kids do well. It's a mixed bag. Chances are, these kids were never taught to respect others, but we can't say that with any certainty. And even if we could, it's not a crime to be a bad parent.

I agree that it would be nice if we knew parents were doing their jobs. But I just don't agree with going down the "blame the parents" path.

[camisadelgolf]

Well, perhaps the parents didn't do their jobs. That's certainly possible. I just don't like the "blame the parents" mindset, because it implies that individuals shouldn't be accountable for their actions. Parents can't control what their kids do. They can only teach them well and hope they learn. I've seen good parents have kids go terribly wrong and bad parents have kids do well. It's a mixed bag. Chances are, these kids were never taught to respect others, but we can't say that with any certainty. And even if we could, it's not a crime to be a bad parent.

I agree that it would be nice if we knew parents were doing their jobs. But I just don't agree with going down the "blame the parents" path.

I think that's more than reasonable. The snowball fight situation is one in which both sides were wrong (imo), so I just don't think it's fair to say 'throw the kids in jail' or whatever and then forget about the negligence of the undercover officer and chalk it up to 'well, the kids started it' or whatever justification people want to use to make the officer seem completely innocent. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. In that video, I really think there had to be at least a few of those kids who tried to do the right thing (or at least did nothing wrong), so I hate to see them lumped in with all those other kids.

[Brutus]

I think that's more than reasonable. The snowball fight situation is one in which both sides were wrong (imo), so I just don't think it's fair to say 'throw the kids in jail' or whatever and then forget about the negligence of the undercover officer and chalk it up to 'well, the kids started it' or whatever justification people want to use to make the officer seem completely innocent. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. In that video, I really think there had to be at least a few of those kids who tried to do the right thing (or at least did nothing wrong), so I hate to see them lumped in with all those other kids.

Most definitely not everyone in that video was a wrongdoer. I agree with that. There were some innocent bystanders. But while I make no bones about the fact I don't see why the cop had to draw his gun, I also could see how he felt he was in a situation that could begin to escalate. After all, there were a ton of people there egging those kids on, and one snowball or two snowballs could have very quickly turned into a very dangerous situation (and perhaps the cop already felt it was).

I'll say this: to me, the fact that the cop identified himself and drew his gun, and the kids still continued to throw snowballs despite learning that almost justifies the cop to begin with. If they were that hell bent on being stupid even after the fact, the cop probably didn't do so wrong after all. I may not think a cop needs to draw his gun, but if he did, I immediately stop what I'm doing and get real serious real fast.

Maybe one night in jail does those kids no good. But I think some sort of punishment is in order if for no other reason than setting an example that juvenile behavior will be punished.

[camisadelgolf]

[traderumor]

Most definitely not everyone in that video was a wrongdoer. I agree with that. There were some innocent bystanders. But while I make no bones about the fact I don't see why the cop had to draw his gun, I also could see how he felt he was in a situation that could begin to escalate. After all, there were a ton of people there egging those kids on, and one snowball or two snowballs could have very quickly turned into a very dangerous situation (and perhaps the cop already felt it was).

I'll say this: to me, the fact that the cop identified himself and drew his gun, and the kids still continued to throw snowballs despite learning that almost justifies the cop to begin with. If they were that hell bent on being stupid even after the fact, the cop probably didn't do so wrong after all. I may not think a cop needs to draw his gun, but if he did, I immediately stop what I'm doing and get real serious real fast.

Maybe one night in jail does those kids no good. But I think some sort of punishment is in order if for no other reason than setting an example that juvenile behavior will be punished.

The video picks up with the cop flashing his gun. What caused him to do that is the clincher as to whether he was responsible for things escalating or if it was a reasonable action. I think he at one point talked about the kids throwing snowballs at passing cars, which is dangerous because something unexpected is flying at you while your driving, it can easily cause an accident.

One thing is for sure, that was a mob mentality and there was one of him. He called for backup and got it.