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Thread: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

  1. #826
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Yeah. I doubt it.
    I never would have guessed that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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  3. #827
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    I never would have guessed that.
    Mostly because what he said isn't true.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Mostly because what he said isn't true.
    Really. What's the rule?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Really. What's the rule?
    Here's the entire NCAA rulebook. http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...loads/D110.pdf

    Specifically, see Section 12 - Amateurism. More specifically:

    12.1.2 Amateur Status. An individual loses amateur status and thus shall not be eligible for intercollegiate competition in a particular sport if the individual:

    (a) Uses his or her athletics skill (directly or indirectly) for pay in any form in that sport;
    12.1.2.1 Prohibited Forms of Pay. ďPay,Ē as used in Bylaw 12.1.2 above, includes, but is not limited to, the following:

    12.1.2.1.1 Salary, Gratuity or Compensation. Any direct or indirect salary, gratuity or comparable compensation.
    Nowhere does it mention the "pay back" scenario proposed by Maggard.

    I dare you to ask Maggard for specific examples of where this "pay back" has happened. I'd do it, but it'd never get posted. I've made 4 posts there and none of them has ever seen the light of day.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    The grade stuff is fine too. That's a total non-story IMO.

    Get back to that UNNAMED COLLEGE COACH. Crap like that seems better suited for TMZ Sports than the NEW YORK TIMES, but maybe I just overestimated them.
    I just don't understand what's crap about it. You really seem hung up on this "unnamed college coach" thing. In both instances in this article where the Times used an unnamed source, they gave the reason why the source wanted to remain unnamed. From a journalistic standpoint this seems reasonable.

    Any smart person would TOTALLY ignore the "unnamed college coach" claiming that Ford asked for money. For every good ball player that goes to one school, you can find 3 other coaches who lost that kid who will attempt to save face by claiming the winning school cheated..... it's so old had and passe' that it's boring to me by now.
    Taken from Marc Maggard(who it should be noted has not been offered a job at the NY Times. Though maybe that's becasue they deem him too credible.)

    Call me crazy but I don't understand how the coach is saving face here. In my mind, it would only be saving face if the coach identified himself.
    Now, it doesn't mean that the coach isn't lying or bitter at Calipari's success or 100 other things but saving face doesn't really make sense to me.
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  7. #831
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Why would Calipari recruit a kid who got a 14 on his ACT the first time he took it coming off the heels of the Rose fiasco? To me, that is the question. He is the coach of a top 3 program. He doesn't need to take the chances like he did at UMass and at Memphis.

    Sorry, you can't keep recruiting guys who qualify at the last minute and then throw your hands up and say "I didn't know!"

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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    This is a little bit like holding in football.

    It happens on every play, the officials just don't call it. In the same vein I'd bet most every college is doing something that is a violation of the ncaa bylaws and is either getting away with it, or are unaware of it.

    The implications that Cal is consciously dirty is only as accurate as saying Coach K, Calhoun, Pitino, Kennedy, Huggins, Mack and on and on are dirty as well.

    The witchhunt is unnecessary, they are all witches. Including whomever coaches YOUR team. Get over it.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    The witchhunt is unnecessary, they are all witches. Including whomever coaches YOUR team. Get over it.
    I 100% agree with you and hope that you're directing this to UK fans as well. The reason UofL fans rejoice at bad news for Cal is UK fans seem to have this "holier than thou" complex about their coach and their program.

    On a side note, this story just lends further support to the fact that Cal is going to be watched extremely closely. This NYT reporter likely has nothing against UK but he wants to make a name for himself as the one who finally cracked the teflon suit that Cal seems to wear. Things that likely would be missed at another program will be exposed at UK because Calipari has the spotlight on him.

  10. #834
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    This is a little bit like holding in football.

    It happens on every play, the officials just don't call it. In the same vein I'd bet most every college is doing something that is a violation of the ncaa bylaws and is either getting away with it, or are unaware of it.

    The implications that Cal is consciously dirty is only as accurate as saying Coach K, Calhoun, Pitino, Kennedy, Huggins, Mack and on and on are dirty as well.

    The witchhunt is unnecessary, they are all witches. Including whomever coaches YOUR team. Get over it.
    It's a nice deflection, but it's not at all accurate. It is accurate to say that many programs live in a shade of gray, dealing with AAU leaches, entourages, and back channel recruiting during dark periods, criminal records, exceptions when it comes to a school's minimum standards... Sketchy? Yup, maybe even unethical, but 99% of that isn't even a violation as the rule is written. The NCAA only clears the haze when things get out of hand, like the AAU package deals.

    An agent paying a player, a player ruled ineligible because of a bogus ACT score, and a recruit allegedly having rent paid and grade doctoring in HS are as serious as it gets. Those are not things that happen at every program, under every coach.

    To me, either Calipari is truly clueless about what goes on with his players/recruits, or he's just smart enough to skirt by personally (unlike Bozeman, Sampson, Floyd or Calhoun). It's only damaged his former programs to date. With every accusation, and yes it's only an accusation with Bledsoe, the latter seems more and more likely.
    Last edited by guttle11; 05-30-2010 at 03:12 PM.
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  11. #835
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Check the sig. Great post, and from a non-UK fan to boot.

    I really wish people would at least give him the Camby situation. He turned his own freaking program into the NCAA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    It's a nice deflection, but it's not at all accurate. It is accurate to say that many programs live in a shade of gray, dealing with AAU leaches, entourages, and back channel recruiting during dark periods, criminal records, exceptions when it comes to a school's minimum standards... Sketchy? Yup, maybe even unethical, but 99% of that isn't even a violation as the rule is written. The NCAA only clears the haze when things get out of hand, like the AAU package deals.
    Deflection? Perhaps.

    However, all Division I coaches cheat. All of them.

    All Division I programs are dirty. All of them.

    It's the level of cheating that occurs is the question.

    Coach K is dirty, as is Roy Williams, as was Dean Smith, as was John Wooden.

    It's the nature of the beast. The NCAA "handbook" is longer than Ulysses and twice as difficult to understand. Some coaches wallow around in the dirt. Some dab it behind their ears and insist their clean.

    Do I think Calipari does some questionable things that skirt NCAA rules?

    Absolutely.

    But he needs to stand in line among the "best and brightest" the NCAA has. Pitino, K, Williams, Self, and Calhoun are just as filthy.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  13. #837
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Deflection? Perhaps.

    However, all Division I coaches cheat. All of them.

    All Division I programs are dirty. All of them.

    It's the level of cheating that occurs is the question.

    Coach K is dirty, as is Roy Williams, as was Dean Smith, as was John Wooden.

    It's the nature of the beast. The NCAA "handbook" is longer than Ulysses and twice as difficult to understand. Some coaches wallow around in the dirt. Some dab it behind their ears and insist their clean.

    Do I think Calipari does some questionable things that skirt NCAA rules?

    Absolutely.

    But he needs to stand in line among the "best and brightest" the NCAA has. Pitino, K, Williams, Self, and Calhoun are just as filthy.
    We can agree that most programs commit violations, but "Cheating" assumes intent. It never gets reported, but every program reports violations, or potential violations, to the NCAA. Most are nothing more than bumping into a player's family at the mall and saying more than hello then walking away, or a phone call that lasts 3 minutes too long. Compliance offices laugh as they send the fax. Technically a violation, but not at all cheating.

    If Coach A knows about something and looks the other way or tries to cover it up, that's cheating. If Coach B finds out and self-reports, that's just a violation.

    "Dirty" applies more to ethics, and on that we can agree. Coaches mislead (or outright lie), work the AAU system and live right on the edge of the rules. You have to live in the muck to win in big time college hoops, but doing so is not necessarily "cheating". Not every program is out there paying players, changing grades, ignoring practice rules, accepting welding certificates, you name it. Major violations are rare in the scheme of things, and most are self-reported. A Tim Floyd or Todd Bozeman situation does happen, but it's not a complete Wild West scenario that many people would lead you to believe. More like the average Joe Smith doing his income tax return. Just because he goes to the edge with deductions and may miss a decimal point, it doesn't lump him in with guys that launder and hide barrels of income.
    Last edited by guttle11; 05-31-2010 at 12:33 AM.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  14. #838
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    They deserve whatever they get. And we all know this story won't end well. Never does with Cal. Only ends well for him.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    They deserve whatever they get. And we all know this story won't end well. Never does with Cal. Only ends well for him.
    The way I am treating it is this, if he does a 180 and takes an NBA job, I will know something is up.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    They deserve whatever they get. And we all know this story won't end well. Never does with Cal. Only ends well for him.
    It will end up with him leaving for a truckload of cash in the NBA, and his previous employer holding the bag. Nothing new.

    The amusing part of all this isn't the Cal is going to be investigated, again, it's the fact that UK fans are suprised by it. You had to know what you were getting when this guy was hired. Nothing but a self inflicted wound that didn't have to be.
    Pessimists are well informed optimists


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