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Thread: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

  1. #961
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    In the past 24 hours, the family of Anthony Davis has been subjected to an all out attack on their credibility based on nothing more than unnamed sources who supposedly "heard rumors". While rumors like these are commonly floated by "friends" of rival programs, it's unprecedented that a national media entity like the Chicago Sun Times would runs this sort of story.

    The predictable part is the inclusion of the University of Kentucky and John Calipari into the storyline. The forces behind this "story" clearly intend to do damage to UK, Calipari and as an added benefit, the recruitment of Anthony Davis. By adding these names to the story, not only do they get another shot at UK/Cal, but they attempt to derail a recruitment of a top UK target. For those looking to harm UK/Cal, this is what you'd call a "win / win".

    The truth of the matter is.... if you show me ANY top recruit, I'll find you two or three college programs who are willing to whisper "they cheated to get him" so they can have a valid reason to have FAILED to recruit and sign a top kid. It's the oldest trick in the book, honestly. You don't get a kid, you claim that someone cheated you out of him. It has been that way for decades.

    While I've never been one to buy into the "they are out to get us" mentality that some UK supporters believe, this is a totally different animal. There is WAY too much smoke and absolutely zero fire... this is a planted story from the get go.

    So, who could possibly be planting such information in the media on the day of the Pitino trial's closing arguments?? Well, let's first look at who it isn't.....

    It certainly isn't any of the majority of reporters who came out in print and twitter condemning the Sun Times story as irresponsible journalism at the least and ridiculous journalism at the most. It's not hard to see who the 98% of those guys are and see whose name is conspicuously missing from the list of reporting heavyweights who failed to even utter a peep to denounce the Sun Times. Obviously, if you were the one who planted a story, you wouldn't come out publicly and criticize the writer and publisher of that same story. What did Pat Forde say about the story?

    You see, I've heard my own rumors from great sources.... from people who get calls BEFORE stories get printed..... these people knew this sort of story was coming out long before it ran. This is the reason I wrote last week to be prepared for this sort of thing. There is a determined effort from the "friends of Pitino" crowd to cause damage to UK/Cal by floating these sorts of stories. The first strong evidence I got was during the "Eric Bledsoe" story. Pete Thamel was the front, but the story came from the same person who is almost certainly behind this "Davis want's money" story.

    The sad part is, I don't think Michael O'Brien knew what he was doing. As Matt Jones posted yesterday, his accusation of cheating was written as an aside.... as if it were a minor point. However, the most telling part of his story was in the way it was so carefully worded as to say everything without saying anything that would leave him open to a lawsuit. This story was handed to O'Brien already written by someone who knew exactly how to do it... someone who has had practice at handing out anti UK/Cal stories that are resistant to lawsuits due to careful wording.

    So what am I saying? Who do I believe is behind all these ridiculous stories? The rumor is that Pat Forde is the evil mastermind who is handing out these stories. I heard rumors about him looking for Bledsoe stuff, but when ESPN wouldn't run it, the rumors are he gave it to Pete Thamel, who he worked with at ESPN before Thamel moved on to the New York Times, a paper known to print anything.

    The funniest part of this Davis story is how totally unbelievable it is to anyone who really is involved with recruiting in the first place. The days of bags of cash being handed out are gone. IF someone wanted to give improper benefits to a family, it wouldn't be a large cash sum like the 200k that the Sun Times accuses the recruit's father of asking for.

    Additionally, does anyone really think John Calipari HAS to cheat? He's the hottest coach at the hottest program in the nation. He got John Wall when Wall's closest advisor was opposed to it. He got Marquis Teague while Teague's high school coach was employed by Rick Pitino (who claims to be opposed to using relationships to get recruits). He got Terrence Jones from the west coast after Jones had an emotional press conference and mistakenly chose Washington in front of the world. John Calipari has the most attractive package in the nation to offer recruits. He has NO NEED to cheat at all. And as everyone here knows, when John Calipari was coaching at Memphis, I always wrote that I never heard a single credible story where Cal was accused of doing something improper. He didn't cheat at Memphis and he certainly doesn't have to cheat at UK.

    UPDATE 1: Be prepared to have William Wesley's name brought into this story as the "bag man" who supposedly paid Anthony Davis. I've heard credible rumors that phone calls are being made asking for remarks about this sort of story. The funniest part of this story is that William Wesley has no relationship at all with Anthony Davis or his family. But that's not going to stop this from being the rumor thrown out there to sensationalize the story.

    This entire story is a setup designed to get UK/Cal to sue someone. The idea is to get Calipari on the witness stand in a lawsuit and attempt to damage him under cross examination. By bringing William Wesley's name into this fake story, any resulting lawsuit could attempt to depose Wesley as well. I fully expect Wesley to be named at some point in the near future for this very pupose

    No doubt this idea was thought up in "less than 15 seconds" by someone who probably understands how a public lawsuit can damage a career. The problem is, Calipari isn't cheating, so there isn't any "smoking lasagna".

    UPDATE 2: Now the Sun Times is standing behind the story they pulled down yesterday. They claim to have 3 separate universities that are saying they claim that they were asked for money by Anhony Davis' father. I call BS and I'm sure many others will as well. Not only do I find it hard to believe Mr. Davis ever asked for money, I find it impossible to believe that 3 separate universities would be sources for a story if he had asked for money.

    This is further proof that this entire story is designed to do nothing more than create a situation where John Calipari is forced to become involved in a lawsuit. You'd have to wonder if the Sun Times thinks whatever they'd lose in any lawsuit would be minimal compared to the attention they'd get by being involved in a suit by Calipari/UK. Risk vs. reward perhaps?

    Anyone reading this story has my full permission to repost this on any message board.

    Marc Maggard
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    I hate Kentucky with a passion and I still don't think this should have been reported without more information.

    WWW obviously has serious connections with Cal and he finds a way to get involved with any Chicago kid. That's why people are saying his name a lot. People have been claiming for years that WWW and others are steering kids with money to Cal. This is just the first time a major outlet published the rumor.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post

    So what am I saying? Who do I believe is behind all these ridiculous stories? The rumor is that Pat Forde is the evil mastermind who is handing out these stories. I heard rumors about him looking for Bledsoe stuff, but when ESPN wouldn't run it, the rumors are he gave it to Pete Thamel, who he worked with at ESPN before Thamel moved on to the New York Times, a paper known to print anything.

    Marc Maggard
    Wow WMR, do you even read this stuff before you post it? I mean that's some high level paranoia going on there. Obviously there's no love lost between Forde and UK/Calipari but really? Do you think he has nothing better to do with his summer vacation than place a story with competitors in order to get Calipari onto the stand and damage him?

    I'd love for Marc Maggard to explain how the New York Times has a reputation to "print anything." You never bothered to explain what the NY Times printed that was UNTRUE in the first story, but I'd like to hear one other story that the New York Times has printed just to "throw it out there without any facts."
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Wow WMR, do you even read this stuff before you post it? I mean that's some high level paranoia going on there. Obviously there's no love lost between Forde and UK/Calipari but really? Do you think he has nothing better to do with his summer vacation than place a story with competitors in order to get Calipari onto the stand and damage him?

    I'd love for Marc Maggard to explain how the New York Times has a reputation to "print anything." You never bothered to explain what the NY Times printed that was UNTRUE in the first story, but I'd like to hear one other story that the New York Times has printed just to "throw it out there without any facts."
    Funny, I was about to ask you the same thing about your posts.

    You're really demonstrating your ignorance when it comes to Pat Forde. Big time.

    Forde's 'summer vacation'??? WOW, Do you ever re-read this 'stuff' before you post it? I'm sure Pat Forde is too busy sitting by the beach to help out his bestest buddy and meal ticket Pitino.

    I would tell you to focus on your own program, but I'm not a sadist.

    I'm sure Pete Thamel and the NYT are appreciative of your dogged defending of their utter crap article, all these months later.
    Last edited by WMR; 08-06-2010 at 10:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    A Kentucky message board claims that Rick Pitino and Pat Forde are behind the stories (NY Times and Chicago Sun-Times) that have emerged alleging violations between recruits and Cal/UK. They're doing this because Pitino and company are looking for a way to get Calipari into court to cross examine him so that they can ruin his reputation. That same message board is also claimed a third article in the series will allege that WWW was the "bag man" that gave the cash to the Davis family.

    Sadly, I could believe both parts of this ridiculous soap opera. One, that Pitino and Forde-- a prima donna who has been so far up Pitino's backside that he has to slide left when the TP comes into view-- would have the temerity to think and implement it, and, two, that Kentucky may be cheating. (Though the $200,000 figure is beyond ignorant. Most whispers of improper benefits involve used cars and spending money only.)
    Actually, I think it has more to do with the extortion trial going on this week than trying to ruin Cal's reputation. Keeps the heat off Rick Pitino and his sexual encounters with cougars.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Actually, I think it has more to do with the extortion trial going on this week than trying to ruin Cal's reputation. Keeps the heat off Rick Pitino and his sexual encounters with cougars.
    It functions in a number of ways: hopefully goad Cal/UK into suing ... get eyes and minds off 15 second Pitino ... possibly get the kid to waiver on his probable commitment to UK (hurt UK recruiting)...

    Tom Crean, Rick Pitino, and John Calipari walk into a bar...

    they leave with a 2 star recruit, herpes, and a vacated FF.

    I'll let you decide who is who.
    Last edited by WMR; 08-06-2010 at 10:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Funny, I was about to ask you the same thing about your posts.

    You're really demonstrating your ignorance when it comes to Pat Forde. Big time.

    Forde's 'summer vacation'??? WOW, Do you ever re-read this 'stuff' before you post it? I'm sure Pat Forde is too busy sitting by the beach to help out his bestest buddy and meal ticket Pitino.

    I would tell you to focus on your own program, but I'm not a sadist.

    I'm sure Pete Thamel and the NYT are appreciative of your dogged defending of their utter crap article, all these months later.
    See here's the thing. I happily claim ignorance to Pat Forde's dealings with Kentucky and Pitino. I just have a hard time believing the guy doesn't have enough going on that he willfully travels around the country digging up dirt,(not to use in his own column) but to feed to other writers as well. He may very well be doing whatever he can to dig up dirt on Calipari, he may be breaking every ethical standard ever set forth, but to do it so that other writers would profit. I guess I just don't see it. I'm not saying it's not possible, but rather it's not probable.

    As for Thamel's article. I'm still waiting to see one thing he reported as fact that was not true. Assuming you can't or won't do that, I'll let the story stand for itself. As to ESPN not running that story(you've got to be kidding me, not only would they run it, but they did run it. As did every other newspaper, website and sports content provider in the country.) There is 100000000% no chance that ESPN would have told Pat Forde, "Yeah no thanks. We'll pass on that story. Let me know when you have something big."

    Again, instead of running baseless assertions, how bout you actually show something resembling proof.

    As an IU fan, I thought WE were paranoid.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    The sources are easy. I don't know how many boosters, hangers-on, and university "representatives" whisper (and occasionally shout) about cheating, paying recruits, and academic fraud and opposing schools. Newspapers get hundreds of e-mails and phone calls over the course of a year with "absolute proof" so-and-so cheated to get so-and-so.

    Most of the time, it's sour grapes. (Though there are times when it isn't.)

    The suprising part is that the reporter (O'Brien?) came right back with his three source second report. It's snide, short, and really condescending to both UK and the Davis family. And the paper stood behind him. Completely behind him. Usually, when a rather large university with rather large pockets sends a letter like the one Kentucky sent to the Sun-Times, it's CYA time. Editors and whole departments get axed and reorganized for stories like these, if untrue. The paper, OTOH, hasn't blinked nor has it retracted anything. (Though changing the first story almost completely seemed like a clear admission of less than solid multiple source reporting.)

    That means one of two things.

    1) They have the smoking gun and are really playing this for all it's worth in the hopes of driving up interest and internet hits over the course of an extended time. Kentucky or the Davis family make another stink and the other shoe drops. Proof. Death penalty. Game over, aside from the I-told-you-so's from "haters" on sport message boards.

    2) O'Brien knows his job is hanging by a thread and he desperately needs a major story. He hears whispers about Davis. He already doesn't like Cal and Kentucky. He "knows" they're dirty. He has a friend that used to report in state and that guy is full of stories about how dirty the program and Cal are. He calls the friend and gets a couple university sources for good measure. The newspaper needs hits so they run with it.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    The sources are easy. I don't know how many boosters, hangers-on, and university "representatives" whisper (and occasionally shout) about cheating, paying recruits, and academic fraud and opposing schools. Newspapers get hundreds of e-mails and phone calls over the course of a year with "absolute proof" so-and-so cheated to get so-and-so.

    Most of the time, it's sour grapes. (Though there are times when it isn't.)

    The suprising part is that the reporter (O'Brien?) came right back with his three source second report. It's snide, short, and really condescending to both UK and the Davis family. And the paper stood behind him. Completely behind him. Usually, when a rather large university with rather large pockets sends a letter like the one Kentucky sent to the Sun-Times, it's CYA time. Editors and whole departments get axed and reorganized for stories like these, if untrue. The paper, OTOH, hasn't blinked nor has it retracted anything. (Though changing the first story almost completely seemed like a clear admission of less than solid multiple source reporting.)

    That means one of two things.

    1) They have the smoking gun and are really playing this for all it's worth in the hopes of driving up interest and internet hits over the course of an extended time. Kentucky or the Davis family make another stink and the other shoe drops. Proof. Death penalty. Game over, aside from the I-told-you-so's from "haters" on sport message boards.

    2) O'Brien knows his job is hanging by a thread and he desperately needs a major story. He hears whispers about Davis. He already doesn't like Cal and Kentucky. He "knows" they're dirty. He has a friend that used to report in state and that guy is full of stories about how dirty the program and Cal are. He calls the friend and gets a couple university sources for good measure. The newspaper needs hits so they run with it.
    I'm interested to see how this pans out. If I had a dollar to wager, I'd guess the Sun-Times has nothing. Nothing more than suspicion at least. But they're banking on the fact that this would be much worse for UK to go through a lawsuit than for them. Essentially every time it's brought up, someone else sees UK in a lawsuit with the Sun-Times and UK's reputation takes another hit.
    Plus if the Sun-Times gave in now, they'd be admitting they have nothing. I think it's a big bluff. They've put all their chips on the table, and they're hoping UK blinks. Actually, they put all their chips, plus some other ones they borrowed from the bank, and some a friend lent them. If UK calls, they're screwed. Like out of business screwed.

    The irony for me is that there's a chance everything reported on is true, but the reporter doesn't actually have real sources on it. So this could come down to whether UK knows that the reporter is right, but also knows that he doesn't know he's right.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    $200,000?

    Not likely.

    UK almost got the death penalty for a couple grand in an Emery envelope. Louisville got into some serious hot water with used cars. Florida State's penchant for sneakers, UT's boosterettes and their Friday Night highlights, free books at LSU-- historically, college kids are bought cheap.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    That's true, SMU's slush fund was allegedly 61,000 and that was spread out over at least a few players.

    I should have been more clear. There's a chance that the player is in fact being paid(something), the reporter threw something out to see if it could stick but has no real proof, and UK knows that the kid is being paid but the reporter doesn't. Or at least UK knows a booster could be paying the player but doesn't know whether or not the reporter actually has proof.

    As I said, it will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. I doubt any of it sticks.
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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That's true, SMU's slush fund was allegedly 61,000 and that was spread out over at least a few players.

    I should have been more clear. There's a chance that the player is in fact being paid(something), the reporter threw something out to see if it could stick but has no real proof, and UK knows that the kid is being paid but the reporter doesn't. Or at least UK knows a booster could be paying the player but doesn't know whether or not the reporter actually has proof.

    As I said, it will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out. I doubt any of it sticks.
    If anything, I don't think UK should sue the Sun Times.

    The Davis family, however, should.

    John Calipari might get called to testify, but the "three unnamed sources" will be brought to light if it ever gets to trial.

    That being said, it won't. The Sun Times is on shaky ground legally, they know it, and will settle out of court, a gag order attached, and print a small retraction on page A-17 that nobody will see.

    The damage is already done. If Davis comes to UK, then all the whispers will be that he took money. If he goes to another school, it will be because of the story made him choose another school. I look for him to actually commit by the end of the month, and Syracuse, the other player, got a commitment from Rakeem Christmas, which leads me to think its down to UK and Ohio St.

    I really think Pat Forde being behind this is a conspiracy theory at best. Do I think Forde has an axe to grind with Cal? Yes. But its kinda far fetched to constantly name him with everything going on. If he is involved, its because the Quick Rick camp wants the heat taken off them with the Sypher trial.

    In the end, it's dirty Chicago news reporting. If anything, it's creating news rather than reporting it. Davis is a Chicago kid and spurned the hometown school. The same newspaper also ran with a John Calipari coming to coach the Bulls rumor.

    As much as people will tie WWW to this, Kenny Payne deserves the credit. He has the Chicago recruiting connections and was a major reason Kentucky picked him up from Oregon.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    In other news, the Chicago Sun Times is reporting that Keith Bogans has signed with the Chicago Bulls and is asking for 2.5 million.

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/25748...wire07.article
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    LOL @ offering a kid 200,000 to sign, like that wouldn't get out, this isn't the 1960s, kids aren't getting stuffed envelopes, and if they are it certainly isn't for THAT much. You guys that aren't in the UK beat think the Pat Forde stuff is paranoia, but it really isn't. This guy is obsessed, I mean to an unhealthy, stalkerish level, with Coach Calipari and UK. He literally went down to Alabama beating on doors to find ANYTHING he could on Eric B and Demarcus, and ESPN took him off the UK/UL beat he was on because of "conflict of interest" - it was at that time, that the only thing he'd even heard from his "fact-finding mission" was about EB's high school transcripts (which was nothing to begin with) and that was when he forwarded on to his buddy at the NYT, Thamel, for him to run this big "expose" since ESPN figured out the guy had gone off his rocker by this point and wanted nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by Javy Pornstache; 08-08-2010 at 04:10 AM.

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    Re: 2010 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 5th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Javy Pornstache View Post
    LOL @ offering a kid 200,000 to sign, like that wouldn't get out, this isn't the 1960s, kids aren't getting stuffed envelopes, and if they are it certainly isn't for THAT much. You guys that aren't in the UK beat think the Pat Forde stuff is paranoia, but it really isn't. This guy is obsessed, I mean to an unhealthy, stalkerish level, with Coach Calipari and UK. He literally went down to Alabama beating on doors to find ANYTHING he could on Eric B and Demarcus, and ESPN took him off the UK/UL beat he was on because of "conflict of interest" - it was at that time, that the only thing he'd even heard from his "fact-finding mission" was about EB's high school transcripts (which was nothing to begin with) and that was when he forwarded on to his buddy at the NYT, Thamel, for him to run this big "expose" since ESPN figured out the guy had gone off his rocker by this point and wanted nothing to do with it.
    I am a UK fan and subscriber at TBK and Marc Maggard is pretty much saying the exact same thing you are.

    I just think its extreme to throw every negative rumor about UK in the direction of Pat Forde. I'm leaving open the possibility of that being true, but I also think its dirty Chicago news reporting. I would have said the same thing in Washington with Terrence Jones if something like this would have happened.

    It's Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Except there's just one degree, and Kevin Bacon is Pat Forde.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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