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Thread: Bengals 2010 pt. I

  1. #61
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The analogy with Mike Brown goes to the question of "can we do better"?

    I think we can. I don't think he utilized Carson Palmer's skills. For instance, why couldn't he use the no huddle?

    This offense showed a huge lack of discipline by jumping off sides and receivers and QB not in synch. This is the fault of the offensive coordinator in not preparing them properly. He should have ridden them hard in practice like a drill sargeant until they could do it in their sleep. Lack of preparation I blame on the coach.

    Why couldn't the offense execute a screen pass to a back like Scott every now and then? Peyton Manning always has dumpoff options and he uses them a lot. Ditto for Tom Brady.

    How 'bout a slant pass? I haven't seen a decent slant executed by this team since the one that broke Slim's arm.

    These are simple things that are not too much to ask of NFL offenses and but Brat can't seem to do it with this group.
    No huddle--you surely aren't going no huddle when you are playing field position, ball control, grind it out football.

    False starts--I blame the frequency of these on CP line of scrimmage shenanigans. Snap the ball already. I don't think every play requires a check off or hard count, and the hard count is just as likely to make your own guy flinch as it is to draw the D offsides.

    Screens and dumps--I'm in agreement

    Slants--the Bengals finally broke these out against the Chiefs, threw a few to Chad, including the game winner. They underutilized these as well and would have gone nicely with the ball control style of offense. I agree there.
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  3. #62
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    No huddle--you surely aren't going no huddle when you are playing field position, ball control, grind it out football.

    False starts--I blame the frequency of these on CP line of scrimmage shenanigans. Snap the ball already. I don't think every play requires a check off or hard count, and the hard count is just as likely to make your own guy flinch as it is to draw the D offsides.
    The no huddle would be a nice thing to not run exclusively but pull out of the bag once a game or so. It should have been in their arsenal given the fact they had a veteran QB.

    You're the first one I've heard that blames the false starts on Carson. I disagree. That's discipline and falls on the O coordinator

  4. #63
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The no huddle would be a nice thing to not run exclusively but pull out of the bag once a game or so. It should have been in their arsenal given the fact they had a veteran QB.

    You're the first one I've heard that blames the false starts on Carson. I disagree. That's discipline and falls on the O coordinator
    Whether its discipline or not, the more cycles they run through just to get the freaking ball snapped is going to cause false starts. Seriously, you don't think a hard count, when your sitting there on your haunches, isn't going to make you twitch, which is all it takes for a false start? I think it is very plausible. Discipline, yes. Could CP's hard counts and check offs, etc. be exacerbating the problem? I think it is very possible.

    I would say that the number of offsides on hard counts vs. the number of false starts from going through long counts is not a win, but a net loss. Rarely does the hard count draw the D offsides, but the long counts make it harder and harder for an offensive lineman not to flinch, esp. when he is trying to get off the ball first.

    That I'm the first one that you've heard suggest it is not an argument. I actually think it is just as silly to not consider the QB's role in false starts.
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  5. #64
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Whether its discipline or not, the more cycles they run through just to get the freaking ball snapped is going to cause false starts. Seriously, you don't think a hard count, when your sitting there on your haunches, isn't going to make you twitch, which is all it takes for a false start? I think it is very plausible. Discipline, yes. Could CP's hard counts and check offs, etc. be exacerbating the problem? I think it is very possible.

    I would say that the number of offsides on hard counts vs. the number of false starts from going through long counts is not a win, but a net loss. Rarely does the hard count draw the D offsides, but the long counts make it harder and harder for an offensive lineman not to flinch, esp. when he is trying to get off the ball first.

    That I'm the first one that you've heard suggest it is not an argument. I actually think it is just as silly to not consider the QB's role in false starts.
    It all comes back to the offensive coordinator. If Carson's hard counts aren't being executed properly then it's up to the OC to coach him up and get it fixed.

    Your example doesn't reflect well on the OC

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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It all comes back to the offensive coordinator. If Carson's hard counts aren't being executed properly then it's up to the OC to coach him up and get it fixed.

    Your example doesn't reflect well on the OC
    What do position coaches get paid to do?
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  7. #66
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Newport Red View Post
    What do position coaches get paid to do?
    Do I have to spell it out for you? TE coach coaches the TEs. WR coaches the WRs...

    The Bears seem pretty impressed with the QB coach. They're interviewing him to be their OC.

    Do the position coaches share in the blame? Sure, but that doesn't absolve the OC who shoulders the ultimate responsibility to get it done right.

  8. #67
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It all comes back to the offensive coordinator. If Carson's hard counts aren't being executed properly then it's up to the OC to coach him up and get it fixed.

    Your example doesn't reflect well on the OC
    I'd say its a choice that an OC has made and lives with. But, I think you are greatly overstating the impact of this attribute on the overall job that an OC is being paid to do. Sure, his higher responsibility makes him technically accountable for such things, but I'd have a hard time sitting in a job evaluation with Brat and saying, "well, Bob, we're going to go another direction. Too many false starts in your regime."

    In other words, that should be a very small part of an org's concern with an offensive coordinator. So much majoring in minors.
    Last edited by traderumor; 01-14-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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  9. #68
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Lewis has been named AP Coach of the Year. I predict an extension.
    Witty signature.

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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by sonny View Post
    Lewis has been named AP Coach of the Year. I predict an extension.
    Congratulations to the team for being the "story-of-the-year". Someone's name had to be attached to the story and they don't have a "Defensive Coordinator of the Year" Award.

    Norv Turner was the "real" Coach of the Year if you want to look at a Coach's performance.

    The Joke is on the Bengals' fans. As you say, here comes the 5-year extension. Funny though, how there's never any knocks on Marvin's door when it comes to interest in obtaining his services. Never a rumor. Never a wane of interest by any other teams. Yeah, he's really a good coach.

  11. #70
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Congratulations to the team for being the "story-of-the-year". Someone's name had to be attached to the story and they don't have a "Defensive Coordinator of the Year" Award.

    Norv Turner was the "real" Coach of the Year if you want to look at a Coach's performance.

    The Joke is on the Bengals' fans. As you say, here comes the 5-year extension. Funny though, how there's never any knocks on Marvin's door when it comes to interest in obtaining his services. Never a rumor. Never a wane of interest by any other teams. Yeah, he's really a good coach.
    This isn't college football. Coaches don't jump from team to team or entertain other offers while they are still under contract with another team. So, your jab is unfounded.
    Can't win with 'em

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  12. #71
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Congratulations to the team for being the "story-of-the-year". Someone's name had to be attached to the story and they don't have a "Defensive Coordinator of the Year" Award.

    Norv Turner was the "real" Coach of the Year if you want to look at a Coach's performance.

    The Joke is on the Bengals' fans. As you say, here comes the 5-year extension. Funny though, how there's never any knocks on Marvin's door when it comes to interest in obtaining his services. Never a rumor. Never a wane of interest by any other teams. Yeah, he's really a good coach.
    Other than containing the potential of stirring up a whole bunch of trouble, I'm not sure what this post accomplishes.

    Disagreeing with the award is fine. But failing to recognize what Lewis has done in turning this franchise around is foolish.

  13. #72
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Other than containing the potential of stirring up a whole bunch of trouble, I'm not sure what this post accomplishes.

    Disagreeing with the award is fine. But failing to recognize what Lewis has done in turning this franchise around is foolish.
    Well said.
    Can't win with 'em

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  14. #73
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Found this on a Bengals board...

    1996-2002 --- [i.e. Pre-Marvin]
    8-8
    7-9
    3-13
    4-12
    4-12
    4-12
    2-14

    TOTAL WINS = 32
    Playoff appearances = 0
    Division titles = 0



    2003-2009 --- [i.e. Post-Marvin]
    8-8
    8-8
    11-5
    8-8
    7-9
    4-11-1
    10-6

    TOTAL WINS = 56
    Playoff Appearances = 2
    Division titles = 2
    DLC11@Insightbb.com

  15. #74
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Marvin Lewis is a great coach, I just don't understand how anyone can think otherwise. Even some of the stuff people use against him is unfounded (like challenges, you go back and look and percentage wise he's successful a lot when it comes to those). His time management could use some work, that's really about the only thing I can think to criticize.

    Glad to see him win the AP award and I hope he coaches in Cincinnati as long as he wants.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  16. #75
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Bengals 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Marvin Lewis is a great coach, I just don't understand how anyone can think otherwise. Even some of the stuff people use against him is unfounded (like challenges, you go back and look and percentage wise he's successful a lot when it comes to those). His time management could use some work, that's really about the only thing I can think to criticize.

    Glad to see him win the AP award and I hope he coaches in Cincinnati as long as he wants.
    Agreed.

    The people that bash Marvin don't pay attention. How many coaches could succeed in this organization? No GM, a painful lack of scouts, Mike Brown wanting to pretend he's his father.

    Marvin Lewis should be immediately inducted into the Hall of Fame for even managing two postseason appearances under Brown.

    Before Marvin's first year, Tony Kornheiser said that if Marvin won six games, he should automatically win coach of the year honors. Which shows you how far this franchise has come under Lewis.

    By the way, they won eight games that first year. A season after winning only two.


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