Marvin Lewis isn't the problem. Mike Brown is.
Marvin Lewis isn't the problem. Mike Brown is.
I love football way too much, and I love the Bengals too much which means I have watched the Bengals win or lose week in and week out since I was 7 years old.Originally Posted by Oxilon
Saying that, I'll tell you right now, I'll take .500 and in the conversation most of the year over 3-13 or 4-12 every single time.
There are 32 NFL teams, if you're only watching the Bengals (or whatever team really) to see them win a Super Bowl, then good luck with that. I definitely hope to see the Bengals win one in my life time, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy the heck out of years like 2005 and 2009, or even the occasional 8-8 season.
But I'm a die hard, no matter how much I sometimes wish otherwise, your mileage may vary.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
I don't hate on Marvin myself I think he's done a really exceptional job as the Bengals Head Coach. But he does aggravate me with his challenges, whoever is relaying the information to him isn't doing a real good job IMO. I'd like to see those percentages so if you have a link I'd appreciate it.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
On the subject of 2010 I'd agree with most of what's already been said. I think on defense safety is the biggest area of need although I never mind a little tweaking/upgrading in any spot. Depth at corner and at DT/DE could use some upgrading. LB is pretty solid all the way thru 5-6 guys deep who I think can start. I think the offense is pretty well stocked as well with exception to TE and improving depth all over. WR is an iffy spot for me to figure I think something needs done there but I think the Bengals will view that differently as well as Safety, I bet neither of those positions are a major priority as far as starters/high picks are concerned, but the Bengals really do tend to go best player available. That said I think Mays/Gresham are likely potential targets where we select. I really wish we could finally trade up and fill the spot next to Crocker with Eric Berry. Short of that I'll be angling for Gresham in the early going.
Also I'd find a replacement for Bratkowski and it stems from his pass happy ways. Here he is in a game in the playoffs where we must run the ball and should run the ball philosophically speaking based on the defense we faced and we decide to come out throwing the ball and never really feeding Cedric who had only 21 carries but was tearing it up on the ground. Now if there was an injury or something nagging we don't know about with Cedric I could forgive him for his approach afterall Cedric was the one guy who didn't go the previous week and I'm not sure why, he wasn't injured that I was aware of. Short of that we should have run, run, run at least at a 60/40 split. He goes out there passing the daggone thing and of course it didn't produce much against the #1 passing defense.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
How about Gresham in Rd. 1 and Gilyard in Rd. 2? From what I'm reading on Mock Drafts and Player Rankings, there is a possibility Gilyard will be around in Rd. 2. It'll be close. IMO, he'd be a great fit here. He's a great returner, very good receiver, great kid, college hero here, and he's a winner. He'd quickly become a fan favorite.
"....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421
As far as the clock management and play challenges go, I don't think there's a single coach in the NFL who doesn't annoy his fans with that stuff multiple times throughout the year. In the grand scheme of things, they're fairly minor imo.
I would love that draft. I typically never drink the UC-OSU kool-aid when it comes to the Bengals but Gilyard is somebody that I want them to take. Not only do I think he would be the replacement for Ochocinco in a couple of years, but he understands what it means to Cincinnati and with the way he handled himself and the team when BK left, would really show leadership.
I think the Reds are an instructive case in the failings of the "next level" mindset.
After 2000, many said Jack McKeon had done a good job getting the Reds back to winning ways, but believed he couldn't take them to the next level.
Since McKeon's been gone, the next level has been down. Then down some more.
Meanwhile he won a world championship, how's that for next level.
I think Marvin has done an above average job and while I believe there are coaches who could do a better job there are a great number of people who could do worse. Much worse.
No thanks on Gresham. More of a pass catching TE and not a blocking TE. The Bengals traditionally have wanted a TE who could block and catch. IMO they have a Gresham on their roster in Coffman.
I would love Gilyard in the 2nd. Even if it takes him a while to develop NFL WR skills he could pay divideds in the return game.
FWIW, Mike Florio implied that it was not as impossible as some may have thought...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nt-for-tomlin/
...and this guy seems to agree...
http://www.tribune-democrat.com/spor...016233400.html
Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.
The Steelers expect to make the playoffs every year or win the SB or come close to it.....No matter how unreasonable that can be at times...since they are THE STEELERS....they are expected to do that just beacuse they are THE STEELERS.
While the bengals are always supposed to lose and IF they do win....it's luck and everyone else sucks and they are never really for real.
You literally have to do what the Patriots did and not only win once...YOU have to do it again beacuse the first time might be a fluke. The Patriots history besides 1976-1980...1984-1986....and the middle 90's with Parcells....was just as bad as the Bengals. In fact those 1976-1980 teams were considered some of the biggest underachieving teams ever.
I didn't say it would be justified, I just meant it was reality.
Then what exactly is it a reflection of, then?Whether you like it or not, the Bengals situation is what it is, and he has been successful. To say that is a reflection of low standards really isn't fair.
He is only "successful" when judged by the performance of his predecessors. When judged by the rest of the league, his record is average or below, and there are MANY franchises in the league that simply won't tolerate "average". He's been here seven years and has won what, exactly?
Can you name a comparable example of an NFL head coach that coached seven years with the same team, had two winning seasons out of those seven, won no playoff games, and kept his job long-term? I could start giving examples of coaches with similar or even better records who were let go or resigned, but it would be a long list.
Here are a few, so at least all of them won't remain "unnamed":
Shanahan - Denver
Sherman - Green Bay
Fassel - NY Giants
Schottenheimer - San Diego and Kansas City
Dungy - Tampa Bay (who was mentioned already)
Mariuchi - San Francisco
Gruden - Oakland
Billick - Baltimore
Mora - Indianapolis
Wannsdedt - Miami
And that's just the ones that come easy. Every one of those coaches had more success with those teams than Lewis. And there were even rumors heading into this offseason that Andy Reid could be in trouble in Philadelphia. If we were to dig down to the coaches with just similar records, it would take more time than I have, but it would provide evidence for my assertion of "many".
If we're going to define success as "improvement", "better morale", "not as bad as they used to be", etc., then I'm on board. The team is certainly not the laughingstock that it used to be. But the reality is that the standards are higher with MANY OR MOST NFL franchises.
Last edited by macro; 01-18-2010 at 11:34 AM.
Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.
Maybe in some twisted and sick way.....Brown knows that a coach has one hand tied behind his back here and IF he can find someone to tolerate him and the way things work....he is not going to let him just go?
I always thought that is why he put up with Shula and then later Coslet for as long as he did. He knew they would put up with him more than some other coach.
Let me follow up my previous comments by saying that I'm not in favor of firing Marvin Lewis right now. I do agree that he has turned the franchise around in many ways, and the foundation is laid for success, hopefully as early as next year.
My point was just that we as Bengals fans are probably much easier to impress because of the misery we experienced 1991 - 2002. It's all relative, and many other franchises are far less patient. And while we're being patient, let's not forget that Dick Vermeil took the Rams from decade-long laughingstock to Super Bowl Champions in his third season. Whisenhunt took the Cardinals from multiple-decades-long laughingstocks to within a heartbeat of being Super Bowl Champions in his second season. So say what you will about the state of the franchise when Lewis got here, turnarounds have occurred in other places much sooner.
I do think that I'd give Marvin 2-3 more years to either 1) win at least 12 games in a season, 2) get the team to at least the AFC Championship game, and/or 3) get the team to a #2 seed in the playoffs. Granted, those goals are somewhat arbitrary, but those are my benchmarks for success. If at least one of those three things isn't achieved in the next 2-3 years, I don't know how anyone could argue that Lewis is the man to take them to the next level. Ten years should be enough time.
Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.
It's hard to give Marvin a fair evaluation because of Brown's involvement. A perfect example is the staff, Brown makes those decisions, not Marvin. I think if he could have, he probably would have fired Brat several years ago.
I am honestly suprised that he puts up with all the meddling from Brown and doesn't just go somewhere else, where he'd have full control over those things, like most NFL coaches.
Since Mikey boy is all about profit, you'd think he'd want to hire a GM, let Marvin do the job you pay him for, and just sit back and watch the piles of cash come rolling in. I think part of it is Mikeys quest to try and live up to his daddys standard, and it ain't going to happen.
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
