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Thread: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

  1. #1
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    Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    We have three pretty solid young postion prospects. If you could had to deal two and only keep one, who would it be:

    * Francisco would be the first I would deal. I don't see him as a feaible 3B option at all and I'm not sure he'll be that great in LF. His pitch selection and how major league pitching might expose him, worries me so that I would probably deal him sooner than later before they got a chance.

    * Alonso would be second on my list. He definitely has the most value of the three. I'm not a fan of the Alonso or Votto to LF move. I'd rather obtain a legit OFer. To me it comes down to Votto or Alonso at 1B with the other being dealt to fill another hole.

    As such, I'm in no hurry to deal Yonder because that choice is at least a year away. If they know that they want to go with Votto longterm though and someone knocks their socks off for YA...

    * Frazier probably has the least power potential of the three, but I see him as being consistent and his ability to play four or five positions might even make his value as a supersub more than his return in a trade - especially with Rolen's 120 game a year average at 3B.

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  3. #2
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    We have three pretty solid young postion prospects. If you could had to deal two and only keep one, who would it be:

    * Francisco would be the first I would deal. I don't see him as a feaible 3B option at all and I'm not sure he'll be that great in LF. His pitch selection and how major league pitching might expose him, worries me so that I would probably deal him sooner than later before they got a chance.

    * Alonso would be second on my list. He definitely has the most value of the three. I'm not a fan of the Alonso or Votto to LF move. I'd rather obtain a legit OFer. To me it comes down to Votto or Alonso at 1B with the other being dealt to fill another hole.

    As such, I'm in no hurry to deal Yonder because that choice is at least a year away. If they know that they want to go with Votto longterm though and someone knocks their socks off for YA...

    * Frazier probably has the least power potential of the three, but I see him as being consistent and his ability to play four or five positions might even make his value as a supersub more than his return in a trade - especially with Rolen's 120 game a year average at 3B.
    It all depends on what you could get back. I think Alonso would have the most trade value, but the team should be looking to trade from where it has too many guy to address areas where the team doesn't have enough.

    Deals like this never happen, but Alonso, Wood, Lincoln, Sutton and Burton for Reid Brignac, Matt Joyce, Jake McGee, Alex Torres and Dioner Navarro. Excess (a top guy who is blocked and has no versatility to resolve the problem, a decent starter prospect who looks like the odd man out given the new found depth, a Supersub with some real defensive problems and a couple relievers who had down years and are blocking some good arms who are coming along) is turned into a MI who hits lefty and actually can play SS, a LH Hitting legit corner OF, a C and a couple power lefty pitchers. All areas where the team has a lot less depth.

    Stubbs/Dickerson CF
    Rolen 3B
    Votto 1B
    Bruce RF
    Joyce/Heisey LF
    Phillips 2B
    Brignac/Cozart SS
    Hanigan/Hernandez/Navarro C

    Bailey
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Harang
    Maloney/Volquez/Chapman/Leake
    Owings
    Fisher/Ondrusek/Del Rosario
    Herrera
    Bray/Viola/Valiquette/Thurman/Joseph
    Rhodes
    Masset
    Cordero

    Doesn't look like the team would miss those guys much and the weak areas (LF, SS and C) would all be addressed while adding a couple good arms for lower in the system.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    I'm trading Alonso (highest return) and Fransisco (best bet of the 3 to be a bust).
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Alonso. I would not move Votto, making Yonder redundant.

    I'd wait to see how 2010 goes before making a decision about Francisco or Frazier.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  6. #5
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    I'd start shopping Yonder for a young shortstop or catcher. I'd hate to trade Alonso but it's becoming apparent the Reds aren't going to move Votto to left field.

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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Not sure what the evidence is that Votto won't be moved. Still looks like the best overall solution to me. Votto to LF, Yonder to 1b. I think Yonder will make this seem right by midsummer. What's more, it seems pretty evident to me that haste is not Jocketty's modus operandi.

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    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    There's more incentive to hang onto Alonso now that the Reds have signed Chapman. Our new potential ace needs some company on the squad, and who better to pal around with him and show him the ropes than Alonso, 22, of Cuban descent, but born in Miami not the old country.

    So I'd keep Alonso, and Votto, too -- moving Joey to LF and inserting Alonso at 1B.

    Frazier's another keeper -- not only to play 3B when Rolen isn't available, but also to possibly take over 2B if Frazier can make the necessary defensive adjustments. Phillips is still reasonably priced in 2010, but not so much starting in 2011 and beyond.

    The odd-man-out here seems to be Francisco. But I wouldn't just give him away, either. I'd only deal him as part of a package to fill an area of genuine need for the Reds -- say, acquiring our future catcher or SS.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by Guacarock View Post
    There's more incentive to hang onto Alonso now that the Reds have signed Chapman. Our new potential ace needs some company on the squad, and who better to pal around with him and show him the ropes than Alonso, 22, of Cuban descent, but born in Miami not the old country.
    Alonso was born in Havana, Cuba and defected to the US when he was about eight or nine years old.

    I'd love to keep Alonso around and move Votto to left field but I just don't see the Reds doing that.

  10. #9
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'd love to keep Alonso around and move Votto to left field but I just don't see the Reds doing that.
    Same here. I'd like to see it happen but I don't think the Reds will do it. They will trade one of them as soon as they think Alonso is ready.

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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    If they feel Alonso is legit they could also consider the unthinkable and trade Votto, since he could potentially fetch a much more considerable return.

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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Jocketty's MO in the past has been to move players around the diamond. While Votto may not be Pujols, he is the closest thing the Reds have and Pujols was moved three times before settling in at first base.

    My guess is Votto will either be moved to left field or Alonso will be traded. It depends on what Alonso can get back, how well Votto can play LF, and how the other guys (Frazier and Francisco) hit and play.

    My guess is Frazier stays in Cincinnati, as he's Jocketty's type of player-- baseball smart, versatile, and leader-ish. Alonso is most likely to be sent packing, as he has a combination of talent, panache, and he's blocked. Francisco has more questions surrounding him and Jocketty really likes big power guys who can play corner IF. If he can play LF adequately enough, I'm guessing he's the LF of the future. (Perhaps as a platoon with Frazier, with Frazier also playing the IF and Francisco playing 3B when Rolen's not 100%.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by Orenda View Post
    If they feel Alonso is legit they could also consider the unthinkable and trade Votto, since he could potentially fetch a much more considerable return.
    I like the thought. This is sort of the elephant in the room in the "which prospect to trade" debate... but think of the HUGE return you would get by trading Joey Votto this offseason. I'm not necessarily saying I would do it. But if you are the Reds with a bunch of holes all over the roster and a pretty darn good 1B prospect ready to go, and someone comes at you with multiple young MLB ready talents for Votto, you have to think long and hard right?

  14. #13
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    If I were making the calls I would keep Alonso. Since the Reds are making the call, I bet they would keep Francisco. I figure the majority of Redszone would keep Frazier.

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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    I'm all for keeping Frazier and Alonso. Votto in LF is still the best option for the franchise.

    Votto LF - 150 games
    Alonso 1b - 150 games
    Frazier LF/2b/3b/1b/RF - 85 games

    If El Nino were to make a play for LF in 2011, that could mean Phillips gets traded, which I would hate, but it makes a lot of sense.

    El Nino LF
    Votto 1b
    Alonso traded
    Frazier 2b

    So its really Alonso or El Nino. I'd rather keep Alonso by a mile.
    Last edited by mdccclxix; 01-11-2010 at 02:29 PM.

  16. #15
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    I would keep them in the order of Frazier, Alonso, and Fransisco.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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