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Thread: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

  1. #16
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Trading Votto is unnecessary until 2011 at the earliest because, really, Alonso and Juan and Frazier all could theoretically use one more full year in AAA.

    At that point, with Votto on the block, you can assume Alonso's had a monster year, likewise with Juan, including all you could ask for in September.

    I see Frazier a Red for a long time and more likely tied to the fate of Rolen's health and BP's contract. Either way he'll be available to garner some serious playing time as a top rate super sub. I am concerned about his mechanics though.

    I hope all three bake in AAA most of the year unless Balentien really sucks badly in LF.

    In the end, I think Walt really knows the right way to go when it comes down to it, and we won't know his super secret plans until they happen.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Agreed that the consensus should be Frazier is a Red as long as Jocketty is.

    When you're thinking Balentein is your current best LF-er, you've got to move someone there. Is it Joey? I guess only because Joey has shown to be somewhat a proven commodity in the bigs already, I don't mess him around by asking him to change positions.

    I would trade Alonso, I think he fetches more, since he's got the largest potential. If I'm looking to make a move now to increase my team for the near future, I'm packaging him and Harang and getting a SS.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  4. #18
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    There's a short list of SS's that I'd want to send that much and block Cozart. The trade deadline could be a different story if we're out of it.

  5. #19
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    I would keep Alonso. Period.

  6. #20
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I would keep Alonso. Period.
    I would keep Frazier and its not even close. Alonso is currently blocked by the Reds best player whereas Frazier has the ability (working on the ability) to play multiple positions and get onto the field.

  7. #21
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I would keep Frazier and its not even close. Alonso is currently blocked by the Reds best player whereas Frazier has the ability (working on the ability) to play multiple positions and get onto the field.
    Heard an interview with Dusty last week where he mentioned the possibility of moving Votto to left if/when Alonso was ready.

    GL

  8. #22
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    Heard an interview with Dusty last week where he mentioned the possibility of moving Votto to left if/when Alonso was ready.

    GL
    Wow, really? Very interesting.

  9. #23
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    The development of Bruce factors in as well. If he is a 40 hr bomber, all out stud, do we really need Juan? I'd much rather have Alonso getting on base at a prodigious clip.

  10. #24
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I would keep Frazier and its not even close. Alonso is currently blocked by the Reds best player whereas Frazier has the ability (working on the ability) to play multiple positions and get onto the field.
    Agreed. And basically for this reason: Unlike Alonso, Frazier has value that probably can't be bartered equitably. His minor-league managers talk about his profound impact on his team, and what an all-around winner he is. I just feel that, trading Frazier, you'd probably receive less than he's actually worth. Alonso's value, on the other hand, is more evident on video and by the numbers and scouting reports. By dealing him, you'd more likely get a proper return. Then there's the position thing . . .

  11. #25
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    This is such a tough decision for me... Out of the 3, Francisco would be the odd man out, but I'm not sure he would fetch what his potential value could be... Frazier would stay for sure, as I believe he could super-sub and fill in for Rolen or Phillips when needed. I LOVE Alonso, but keeping Alonso and Votto means my preferred OF of Heisey/Stubbs/Bruce wouldn't work... The thought of having Heisey bat lead-off with Stubbs batting 2nd setting up Votto, Rolen, Bruce, Phillips is incredibly sexy... Not to mention the quality of the outfield defense at that point...
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  12. #26
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    For me it's not easy because Alonso's ceiling bat is so appealing that you don't want to let go of it. But what I see is a group of about 8 or so players that if they pan out (or maybe even if not) there's gonna be a whole lot of dollars the Reds simply won't be able to afford. Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Bailey, Volquez, Alonso, Chapman all of which have superstar potential if even 3 of them pan out that's too much money to spend for this organization, isn't it. Not to mention most likely above average others like Leake, Frazier, Stubbs perhaps even Heisey, Cozart, Francisco (even though I personally doubt Juan) amongst many other young pups coming behind them.

    I believe you have to pick and choose which few guys you are gonna be able to afford, gonna be willing to keep as a core. I think Yonder is a guy who will probably price himself out of this organization anyway but even if he doesn't there is as good or better a player playing the only position he can play already whom is the type you build a club around in every way conceivable (I don't put alot of stock in this depression issue keeping this particular guy down).

    So I think Alonso is the logical choice to go but I'd much rather see Francisco dealt before he turns into a pumpkin.

    But assuming for a moment that the Reds plan is to get as much out of each of these guys as possible I would like to see a realistic view of how this can work to our advantage in the utmost. What I mean is a graph of some sort overlapping all of these guys/contracts in such a way as to doing just that, sorta like the Marlins do. The Marlins pay them until they can't due to arbitration and free agency etc and then have the evaluation skills to turn them into a constantly streaming line of talent. But I really would love to see Votto, Bruce, Frazier, Chapman and Cueto/Bailey all retire as Reds or have spent the most important and largest part of their careers as Reds. Votto, Bruce and Chapman (they Aroldis we might hope for) at least.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  13. #27
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I would keep Frazier and its not even close. Alonso is currently blocked by the Reds best player whereas Frazier has the ability (working on the ability) to play multiple positions and get onto the field.

    I like Frazier and I'd keep him, but, on this team, he's only going to have one position to play and that will cause a considerable defensive loss--2b. There's nothing in what he's done in the minor leagues to suggest he'll hit enough to be an outstanding everyday corner outfielder and Rolen's going to be at 3b for a while. I like him as a supersub and I think that will be his role, but I predict Alonso will be too good to trade.

  14. #28
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    Heard an interview with Dusty last week where he mentioned the possibility of moving Votto to left if/when Alonso was ready.

    GL
    So if Alonso shows he's ready by July 2010, Votto moves to LF mid-season? Or does Alonso stay in the minors until 2011 so Votto has time to work on the move during the offseason?

  15. #29
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    FWIW --

    My guess is that Alonso will become the Reds' first baseman with Votto being traded next off-season. Alonso is Walt's guy, his first pick, he will get the full shot.

    My guess is that Francisco will be at least the platoon leftfielder pretty soon. The Reds understand his value, despite his detractors, they aren't giving up on him soon, again IMO.

    I see Frazier being traded. IMO, if you want to keep a player, you give him a set position and let him learn it and become proficient at it. Frazier has been handled like trade bait. Again just a guess.

  16. #30
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso, Francisco and Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    So if Alonso shows he's ready by July 2010, Votto moves to LF mid-season? Or does Alonso stay in the minors until 2011 so Votto has time to work on the move during the offseason?
    My take on it was that there was no concrete plan in place by any means. He mentioned it it passing that if a guy hits, he won't be blocked. It's better to have too many guys than not enough, etc.

    I think the host asked him about Alonso at first and Dusty rambled on about injuries, etc. and then tossed out the possibility of Votto being athletic enough to play LF, while Alonso probably was not.

    GL


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