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Thread: John Sickels farm system rankings

  1. #46
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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So Scrap: point me to a respected source that even hints that Alonso will be a DH-only by the age of 25 and I will agree that the comparisons to Edgar Martinez and Travis Hafner are valid.
    Ask and ye shall receive:

    From Razzball.com, quoting unnamed scout and scouting report(s):
    His defense was acceptable at best; his base-running was adequate; his hitting eye is just short of amazing; and his swing is jaw-dropping and magnificent.
    From an mlb.com article written when Alonso was drafted:
    Scouting reports about his defense aren't overly enthusiastic, however.
    From Hardball Times:
    His defense can't really be considered more than average, and although he makes the plays he can get to, his range is limited.
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  3. #47
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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Ask and ye shall receive:

    From Razzball.com, quoting unnamed scout and scouting report(s):


    From an mlb.com article written when Alonso was drafted:


    From Hardball Times:
    So, nothing that says he is likely to be a DH or completely unacceptable at 1B by the age of 25? So...the comps still don't make sense and my question still remains unanswered. Comparing Alonso to Hafner and/or Edgar Martinez is just an uninformed comp at this point in his career. I would say anyone comparing him to Pujols is a little overly optimistic at this point as well. IMHO...

    Bum

  4. #48
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    An average at best defensive minor league first baseman isn't that far from being a DH...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    FWIW, Votto graded as a slightly below average defender last season by both UZR and Dewan's +/-....
    Yep, but he was +10.2 in 2008...

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Yep, but he was +10.2 in 2008...
    But the comparison wasn't with his range factor in 2008 which was the point.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #51
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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    An average at best defensive minor league first baseman isn't that far from being a DH...
    Maybe, but no one was rating him as an average defensive minor league first baseman.

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So, nothing that says he is likely to be a DH or completely unacceptable at 1B by the age of 25? So...the comps still don't make sense and my question still remains unanswered. Comparing Alonso to Hafner and/or Edgar Martinez is just an uninformed comp at this point in his career. I would say anyone comparing him to Pujols is a little overly optimistic at this point as well. IMHO...

    Bum
    I'm not quoting you specifically, just want to point out something that most people don't know on the Edgar front.

    Edgar Martinez was good enough defensively at 3rd Base to win a Gold Glove eventually. He was exceptionally talented defensively in the minors having watched him dozens and dozens of times. His multiple knee surgeries early as a Major Leaguer just took everything out of him defensively, though. The Mariners also screwed up by not bringing him up two years before they did. He was ready, but the Mariners had a history of waiting too long for players from Tacoma believing that the PCL League warped statistics (which it did). They flat out whiffed on not recognizing Martinez' greatness at being able to adjust to any pitching at any level at a very early age, being able to get pitchers to throw him the pitch he wanted to swing at. He also always situationally hit the ball, usually preferring to drive the ball on a line drive over uppercutting it into the bleachers. He's still the only Right-hander since Joe DiMaggio to win two American League Batting Titles.

    I know JoJo was there, too, and he may disagree with me regarding Edgar's Defense at Tacoma (and at Seattle when he started), but that's my opinion on it.

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe, but no one was rating him as an average defensive minor league first baseman.
    I know what I saw of him in College defensively, and from what I've gathered from you the last year, he's improved on that quite a bit. I hope it continues. Maybe he can play left field, something I would have bet 10-1 against a year-and-a-half ago. I just wish Votto would make the switch. I know he can play Left Field and do it a lot better than Dunn did it.

    I wish I knew what the REDS were doing on this. They've been ignoring it for the last year, it seems. Somebody here knows somebody who knows. If you do, can you give us the scoop, so we can stop wondering what's going to happen?

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumstead View Post
    So, nothing that says he is likely to be a DH or completely unacceptable at 1B by the age of 25? So...the comps still don't make sense and my question still remains unanswered. Comparing Alonso to Hafner and/or Edgar Martinez is just an uninformed comp at this point in his career. I would say anyone comparing him to Pujols is a little overly optimistic at this point as well. IMHO...

    Bum
    Just to defend my comment, I never once compared Yonder's glove to Hafner's. His swing, patience and line drive power reminds me of Hafner. It took Haf a bit of time to master lefties as well. And as I stated before, for me, he could be the second coming of Dick Stuart if he leads the league in OPS+ twice in 3 seasons (he was 2nd in the 3rd season) like Hafner did. So leave me out of your campaign please.
    May I ask why you place so much importance on a 1st baseman's defense? Would you rather have Mientkiewicz than Giambi (ignoring steroids)?
    Last edited by BoxingRed; 01-20-2010 at 07:25 AM.

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxingRed View Post
    Just to defend my comment, I never once compared Yonder's glove to Hafner's. His swing, patience and line drive power reminds me of Hafner. It took Haf a bit of time to master lefties as well. And as I stated before, for me, he could be the second coming of Dick Stuart if he leads the league in OPS+ twice in 3 seasons (he was 2nd in the 3rd season) like Hafner did. So leave me out of your campaign please.
    May I ask why you place so much importance on a 1st baseman's defense? Would you rather have Mientkiewicz than Giambi (ignoring steroids)?
    I have no campaign...and I never said a 1B had to be great defensively. I said that comparing Alonso to DH-only type hitters was a poor comp at this point in his career (your initial post was "Alonso=Hafner;" that's just not a reasonable comp at this point in his career; no mention was made of just his bat only; I can only comment on what is written). Thanks.

    Bum

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Seriously, if Yonder turns out to be just half as valuable as Edgar was or even Hafner during his pre-injury years, we should be elated.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Seriously, if Yonder turns out to be just half as valuable as Edgar was or even Hafner during his pre-injury years, we should be elated.
    Hopefully Yonder lasts longer than 3 years... Fair comp really would be Votto wouldn't it? Maybe with a little better plate discipline? Seems more reasonable than comparing him to 2 DH's...but if he hits like Edgar and fields like Votto, Red's fans will learn to tolerate him I'm sure.

    Bum

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    I think this system probably overvalues depth a little. It doesn't help you to have 30 decent prospects since you only have a 25-man roster. It's better to have fewer prospects that rank higly than lots of prospects who rank average.

  15. #59
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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    I think this system probably overvalues depth a little. It doesn't help you to have 30 decent prospects since you only have a 25-man roster. It's better to have fewer prospects that rank higly than lots of prospects who rank average.
    Depends on how you look at it. Sure, you don't get that super star, but you also can pay league minimum for 7 guys on the roster instead of $2-4M each, saving you a ton of money to go afford that superstar.

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    Re: John Sickels farm system rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Depends on how you look at it. Sure, you don't get that super star, but you also can pay league minimum for 7 guys on the roster instead of $2-4M each, saving you a ton of money to go afford that superstar.

    And having a steady stream of guys to make deals with. Can't have too much depth, can't have too much real excellence. There's no contradiction between the two. The concept of drafting is simple: get as many of the best players as you can. It's the details that are hard, as in everything.


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