Fay says payroll at around $70M

[Vottomatic]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/201...#pluckcomments

According to Cot's 2010 Reds Payroll: (I think Cot's is wrong about Chapman)
Harang-----------------$12.5M
Arroyo------------------$12.25M
Cordero----------------$12.125M
Rolen-------------------$7.67M
Phillips------------------$6.94M
Tavares-------------------$4M
Chapman------------------$2M ($1.5M signing bonus + $.5M salary)
Hernandez-----------------$3M
Lincoln--------------------$2.5M
Rhodes--------------------$2M
Masset--------------------$1.035M
Alonso---------------------$.9M
Burton---------------------$.81M
Subtotal:-----------------$67.73M

Votto----------------------$.44M
Volquez--------------------$.45M
Bray-----------------------$.43M
Owings---------------------$.43M
Cueto----------------------$.43M
Bruce----------------------$.43M
Balentien-------------------$.42M
Bailey----------------------$.41M
Dickerson-------------------$.4M
Francisco-------------------$.4M
Hanigan---------------------$.4M
Fisher-----------------------$.4M
Herrera----------------------$.4M
Janish-----------------------$.4M
Sutton----------------------$.4M
Lecure----------------------$.4M
Maloney---------------------$.4M
Rosales----------------------$.4M
Drew Stubbs-----------------$.4M
Chris Heisey?-----------------$.4M

Total------------------------$75.97M

Roughly $76M is what I'm coming up with. Maybe a couple of those guys don't make the roster and they save $.8M.

A $91M payroll, by adding Sheets and Tejada, and this team is a contender!!!!

[BLEEDS]

You only count the 25 man roster towards the official unofficial "payroll"...

However, there are other monies that go into it - e.g. the guaranteed money to Alonso and Chapman, whether they are on the 25 man roster or not - but the 25 man is usually what folks use when comparing numbers.

The good news is - we don't have any guys NOT on the roster that we're forced to book, unlike most of the years past.
I wouldn't mind paying Taveras $4M to NOT be on this team however...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Vottomatic]

Okay, then subtract $3.2M from my total for the 8 guys not on the 25-man.

$72.77M

[BLEEDS]

I think you can subtract Chapmans' and Alonso's from the "Payroll" number as well.

Plus, I think you're off on a couple - Arroyo's Salary is $11M, not $12.25, his bonus was paid in full in 2008, so I don't think it's spread out.
Signing bonus' are sometimes spread out, sometimes not, and it's hard to find the definitive details.

Per my tracking this is what I have for the 25-man, which looks pretty darn close to $70M:

1B	L	Votto		0.45
2B	R	BP		6.75
SS	R	Janish		0.45
3B	R	Rolen		7.67
LF	L	Dickerson	0.45
CF	R	Stubbs		0.45
RF	L	Bruce		0.45
C 	R	Hernandez	3.00
				
OF	R	Taveras		4.00
Util	R	Sutton		0.45
C	R	Hanigan		0.45
IF	R	Rosales		0.45
OF	R	Balentein	0.45
				
SP	R	Harang		12.50
SP	R	Arroyo		11.00
SP	R	Bailey		0.45
SP	R	Cueto		0.45
SP	R	Owings		0.45
				
RP	R	Cordero		12.00
RP	R	Lincoln		2.50
RP	L	Rhodes		2.00
RP	R	Masset		1.04
RP	R	Burton		0.81
RP	L	Bray		0.45
RP	L	Herrera		0.45
				
		TOTAL		69.565

I'm only guesstimating the .450 for the minimum salary, I think by contract it's only $400K minimum, but some get more than that. Might be off .5-1M or so, which might make up for the Chapman/Alonso contracts if you "have" to count it towards the payroll (and subtract the minimum salaries from it).

Anyways, pretty darn close.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Vottomatic]

I think you can subtract Chapmans' and Alonso's from the "Payroll" number as well.

Plus, I think you're off on a couple - Arroyo's Salary is $11M, not $12.25, his bonus was paid in full in 2008, so I don't think it's spread out.
Signing bonus' are sometimes spread out, sometimes not, and it's hard to find the definitive details.

Per my tracking this is what I have for the 25-man, which looks pretty darn close to $70M:

1B	L	Votto		0.45
2B	R	BP		6.75
SS	R	Janish		0.45
3B	R	Rolen		7.67
LF	L	Dickerson	0.45
CF	R	Stubbs		0.45
RF	L	Bruce		0.45
C 	R	Hernandez	3.00
				
OF	R	Taveras		4.00
Util	R	Sutton		0.45
C	R	Hanigan		0.45
IF	R	Rosales		0.45
OF	R	Balentein	0.45
				
SP	R	Harang		12.50
SP	R	Arroyo		11.00
SP	R	Bailey		0.45
SP	R	Cueto		0.45
SP	R	Owings		0.45
				
RP	R	Cordero		12.00
RP	R	Lincoln		2.50
RP	L	Rhodes		2.00
RP	R	Masset		1.04
RP	R	Burton		0.81
RP	L	Bray		0.45
RP	L	Herrera		0.45
				
		TOTAL		69.565

I'm only guesstimating the .450 for the minimum salary, I think by contract it's only $400K minimum, but some get more than that. Might be off .5-1M or so, which might make up for the Chapman/Alonso contracts if you "have" to count it towards the payroll (and subtract the minimum salaries from it).

Anyways, pretty darn close.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

So........the payroll is between $70M and $73M.

[Kingspoint]

Signing bonus' are sometimes spread out, sometimes not, and it's hard to find the definitive details.

That's mainly because it's nobody's business. I had a Brother-In-Law who was an auditor for Arthur Anderson (he's now CFO of UPS). At the time he had among his clients a Major Sports Team and he told me about some of the details of some of the contracts. In line with what you're saying, a "reported" 5-year contract would often (under the advise of financial experts for the player, and would be a benefit to the team as well) be spread out over 20 years when the "real" contracts would be written and signed. There are so many advisors for the players that give them an opportunity every time to set themselves up for life with their very first contract (even the "small" contracts). But, that was a long time ago when players weren't as stupid as they are now, where they always want as much money as possible as soon as they can get their hands on it. Anyone with half a brain spreads the money out long-term not knowing how fate may decide to steer your career (as long as you don't encounter double-digit inflation very often like what we had under the Carter administration in the post oil-embargo days when OPEC put the screws to the world, and other factors which we won't get into in this thread....don't even think they'd let us talk about it in any REDSZONE thread). If you don't take advantage of the financial help that's available as a player when you are signing your first contracts, then you are just stupid. But, if you have an agent that's not interested in you, but only interested in his "cut", then that's on you, too. I feel absolutely nothing for any player who goes broke, because they did so out of greed at some point or at many points in their careers, while refusing sound advice from several competent sources.

[Girevik]

But, that was a long time ago when players weren't as stupid as they are now, where they always want as much money as possible as soon as they can get their hands on it. Anyone with half a brain spreads the money out long-term not knowing how fate may decide to steer your career

Not to turn this into a finacial planning board, but I have always learned that the "time value of money" says that money now is ALWAYS worth more than the same amount of money later. I would argue that anyone with half a brain would take as much as they can get now and invest it. That way in year 20 you have that money plus 19 years worth of interest, rather than just that one year's worth of money.

[Kingspoint]

Not to turn this into a finacial planning board, but I have always learned that the "time value of money" says that money now is ALWAYS worth more than the same amount of money later. I would argue that anyone with half a brain would take as much as they can get now and invest it. That way in year 20 you have that money plus 19 years worth of interest, rather than just that one year's worth of money.

That is true to you and me, but you're talking about young people who aren't likely to invest it properly (and who'll spend it frightfully), so it's best to just have it divided up over 20 years, for their own sake. I shouldn't have used the "half-a-brain" line. I can't tell you who, but you'd be surprised at a couple of the players who went the 20-year plan, as their public perception was that of "immature" to say the least.

I tell every young person I come across where the possibility of the conversation can take place, to just put $25 a month away starting now, for the rest of your life and don't touch it or the dividends (put it into a no-load S&P500 index fund) and do it through an inexpensive method like Scottrade, Ameritrade, whatever, and 30 years later, they'll have not missed a penny and have taken advantage of God's greatest gift to mankind....compound interest. Do they do it? Of course, not. Because they're young and stupid like 99% of us, including myself when I was their age. Obviously, my ex-Brother-in-Law was from the 1% group and he has his $40-$50M.