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View Poll Results: Who will win Superbowl XLIV?

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  • Indianapolis Colts

    22 81.48%
  • New Orleans Saints

    5 18.52%
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Thread: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

  1. #121
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    As someone who watched Jim Caldwell coach at his alma mater for almost a decade, that was a classic Caldwell call.

    Caldwell loved the slow-developing running play on 3rd down. Loved it like Tony LaRussa loves making a double-switch or Dusty Baker loves batting his speedy CF leadoff. The more critical the need to convert, the more likely Caldwell was to call it.

    And 9.9 times out of 10, it got the same result as it did last night.
    I thought Caldwell was completely outmatched as a coach last night. Actually I am not too fond of Caldwell as a head coach. To me he is just a figure head that allows Polian to dictate what happens and when. IMO Moore is more important to that team than Caldwell.

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  3. #122
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    No, it can't be, because the rule is intentionally different at the goal line.
    Whether a pass is complete or incomplete is not different depending on where the player is on the field.

  4. #123
    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I thought Caldwell was completely outmatched as a coach last night. Actually I am not too fond of Caldwell as a head coach. To me he is just a figure head that allows Polian to dictate what happens and when. IMO Moore is more important to that team than Caldwell.
    I get a kick out of seeing Caldwell on the sideline. I don't think his expression changed the entire game. Aside for the 2 minute interview with a sideline reporter at half time, I'm pretty sure I didn't see his mouth move at all.
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  5. #124
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Whether a pass is complete or incomplete is not different depending on where the player is on the field.
    The rule is different because nowhere else on the field other than the goal line is the play ruled dead for merely crossing a specific point, such as the goal line.

  6. #125
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    The rule is different because nowhere else on the field other than the goal line is the play ruled dead for merely crossing a specific point, such as the goal line.
    We can debate whether he had possession or not and as I said earlier, that is a judgement call but as I will show here, the rule is not different in the end zone.

    This comes from article three of the NFL rulebook:

    "A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds. To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completely on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession. This rule applies to the field of play and in the end zone."

    Take special note of the line I bolded in black.

    Now what is it in the rules that led you to believe that there are different rules for the field of play and the end zone? I think the fact that this line is in the rulebook clearly supports my claim that there is no differentiating between the two

  7. #126
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We can debate whether he had possession or not and as I said earlier, that is a judgement call but as I will show here, the rule is not different in the end zone.

    This comes from article three of the NFL rulebook:

    "A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds. To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completely on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession. This rule applies to the field of play and in the end zone."

    Take special note of the line I bolded in black.

    Now what is it in the rules that led you to believe that there are different rules for the field of play and the end zone? I think the fact that this line is in the rulebook clearly supports my claim that there is no differentiating between the two
    Good points. The simple way to think of it is like this: if they play had happened at the 50 yard line, would you have called it a catch and fumble?

    I doubt it. I don't think he had control. Phantom call, kind of like U.C. football in the West Virginia game.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  8. #127
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Good points. The simple way to think of it is like this: if they play had happened at the 50 yard line, would you have called it a catch and fumble?

    I doubt it. I don't think he had control. Phantom call, kind of like U.C. football in the West Virginia game.
    Pretty simple really. I'm amazed at the amount of folks who claim that the rule is different depending on what part of the field the catch is made. I don't know what's driving such thought. We can't discuss the call until we agree on the rules

  9. #128
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    I think there's a chance it would be ruled a catch out on the field due to the second-act thing mentioned earlier. The receiver did not drop the ball when he hit the ground. The defender knocked it out, but only after the receiver was already on the ground stretching the ball forward. If that happens on the 5-yard line instead, does that make it an incomplete pass, a fumble or down by contact? Danged if I know for sure.
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  10. #129
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Pretty simple really. I'm amazed at the amount of folks who claim that the rule is different depending on what part of the field the catch is made. I don't know what's driving such thought. We can't discuss the call until we agree on the rules
    The difference is in the continuation. Once the receiver controls the ball and breaks the plane, play over, conversion successful. Stop the tape, nothing else that happens from that nano-second onward is relevant to the play.

    Your problem is that you want to keep watching -- "See," you say, "the ball came free at the end there. No catch!" Once the ball breaks the plane, play over. It isn't that way on the 50 yard line or anywhere else on the field. On the goal line, the play is over before Moore loses the ball.
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  11. #130
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We can debate whether he had possession or not and as I said earlier, that is a judgement call but as I will show here, the rule is not different in the end zone.

    This comes from article three of the NFL rulebook:

    "A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds. To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completely on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession. This rule applies to the field of play and in the end zone."

    Take special note of the line I bolded in black.

    Now what is it in the rules that led you to believe that there are different rules for the field of play and the end zone? I think the fact that this line is in the rulebook clearly supports my claim that there is no differentiating between the two
    Different type of play, but similar end zone example. A RB take the hand off from the QB from the 1 yard line. He jumps over the line, stretches the ball across the goal line, then has the ball knocked loose. Once the ball crosses the goal line, the play is ruled dead, and the touchdown stands. If that happens at the 40 yard line where the RB jumps over the line, stretches the ball out and has it knocked loose it is a fumble and live ball.

    Sea Ray I get your point, but I think had that ball been caught on the 40 yard line it would have been ruled incomplete. I think the refs would have interpreted the rule different had it not happened at the goal line.

  12. #131
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Never have liked Manning so I was happy watching the game. I did think the first half was kind of boring, but overall it was a very good football game. The onside kick was a gutsy call and probably the game changing play in that super bowl. Drew Brees played a great game and deserved the MVP. I think as the game wore on and the score was closer Manning started to get happy feet and started to lock onto Wayne. On the pick 6 I thought it was going to Wayne and on the last play of the game thought it was going Wayne's way.
    The "happy feet" argument is not a good one. He shuffles his feet like that every single game against any team. He did it against the Jets and went 377 and 3tds, and I didn't hear any body say "Peyton had happy feet."

    I don't get blaming Manning for this game. I thought he was just about as "on" as he's been throughout the playoffs. Some of the throws he made were incredible. He threw two passes to Dallas Clark on the run that were pinpoint passes. The TD pass he threw was a great pass. He should have had two TDs, but Wayne dropped the ball at the end. It may not have mattered because they still needed the onside kick. The pick-6 was a mis-communication between Wayne and Manning, but that's going to happen a couple times a game when you don't huddle and use hand signals for everything. You just have to hope those balls fall incomplete.

    The Colts lost because the Saints were better, at least during that game (and maybe overall). Keeping Manning on the sideline for the second quarter is a huge reason the Saints won. And the decision for the Colts to run the ball up the middle three straight times at the end of the second quarter didn't make any sense, they haven't done that in those situations all season. The onside kick to start the second half was a great call by S. Peyton, and he out coached Caldwell the whole game, big time.

    The Colts may have been able to over come all of that if Freeney had been able to play up to his normal ability. The Colts got no pressure on Brees and he's too good to give that much time.

  13. #132
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    The "happy feet" argument is not a good one. He shuffles his feet like that every single game against any team. He did it against the Jets and went 377 and 3tds, and I didn't hear any body say "Peyton had happy feet."

    I don't get blaming Manning for this game. I thought he was just about as "on" as he's been throughout the playoffs. Some of the throws he made were incredible. He threw two passes to Dallas Clark on the run that were pinpoint passes. The TD pass he threw was a great pass. He should have had two TDs, but Wayne dropped the ball at the end. It may not have mattered because they still needed the onside kick. The pick-6 was a mis-communication between Wayne and Manning, but that's going to happen a couple times a game when you don't huddle and use hand signals for everything. You just have to hope those balls fall incomplete.

    The Colts lost because the Saints were better, at least during that game (and maybe overall). Keeping Manning on the sideline for the second quarter is a huge reason the Saints won. And the decision for the Colts to run the ball up the middle three straight times at the end of the second quarter didn't make any sense, they haven't done that in those situations all season. The onside kick to start the second half was a great call by S. Peyton, and he out coached Caldwell the whole game, big time.

    The Colts may have been able to over come all of that if Freeney had been able to play up to his normal ability. The Colts got no pressure on Brees and he's too good to give that much time.
    Perfectly stated. Good post Razor.

  14. #133
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Perfectly stated. Good post Razor.
    Seconded. And Peyton can "happy feet" in the pocket for my team any day.

    I'm glad the Saints won but this was a rare Super Bowl where I liked both teams. Sean Payton definitely outcoached the Corpse of Jim Caldwell, as I think Bill Simmons referred to him.
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  15. #134
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    The "happy feet" argument is not a good one. He shuffles his feet like that every single game against any team. He did it against the Jets and went 377 and 3tds, and I didn't hear any body say "Peyton had happy feet."

    I don't get blaming Manning for this game. I thought he was just about as "on" as he's been throughout the playoffs. Some of the throws he made were incredible. He threw two passes to Dallas Clark on the run that were pinpoint passes. The TD pass he threw was a great pass. He should have had two TDs, but Wayne dropped the ball at the end. It may not have mattered because they still needed the onside kick. The pick-6 was a mis-communication between Wayne and Manning, but that's going to happen a couple times a game when you don't huddle and use hand signals for everything. You just have to hope those balls fall incomplete.

    The Colts lost because the Saints were better, at least during that game (and maybe overall). Keeping Manning on the sideline for the second quarter is a huge reason the Saints won. And the decision for the Colts to run the ball up the middle three straight times at the end of the second quarter didn't make any sense, they haven't done that in those situations all season. The onside kick to start the second half was a great call by S. Peyton, and he out coached Caldwell the whole game, big time.

    The Colts may have been able to over come all of that if Freeney had been able to play up to his normal ability. The Colts got no pressure on Brees and he's too good to give that much time.
    Good post Ryan.....You just might know more bout football than baseball
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  16. #135
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    Re: Superbowl XLIV: Indianapolis Colts vs. New Orleans Saints @ Sun Life Stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Good post Ryan.....You just might know more bout football than baseball
    Easy now. He'll get even more cocky than before...


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