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Thread: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

  1. #16
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    I was actually looking forward to seeing Yanish every day at SS.I guess 10 years of losing can do that to ya.

    I would agree that this is an upgrade and should help some.

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    With Cabrera's glove and bat both on the decline, I'm not terribly excited. But it's certainly better than Alex Gonzalez or JHJ.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #18
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    So....

    Stubbs CF
    Cabrera SS
    Votto 1B
    Phillips 2B
    Rolen 3B
    Bruce RF
    Gomes LF (Hopefully)
    Hernandez/Hanigan C
    Pitcher


    It could be worse.
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  5. #19
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I was hoping it would be a minor league contract, or at worst a one-year deal worth no more than $2M. I'm not sure how much of an improvement Cabrera is over Janish at this point in his career. If Cabrera returns to 2008 form, he'll be a fairly big improvement over Janish. If he has another season like 2009 then he'll actually be a downgrade. Let's hope he can play more like the 2008 Orlando Cabrera instead of the 2009 version.
    This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

  6. #20
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    It has been fairly undisputed that the Reds were weak at SS.I give them some credit for signing one the better if not best SS free agents this year.

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    If his defense is more career than 2009, I am ok with this. If his defense is very poor once again, then this is a terrible signing.

  8. #22
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    And the one who loses the 40th spot is????????? Sutton? Taveras?
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  9. #23
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    I'm not going to throw a party because we signed Orlando Cabrera but I will admit I'm very happy with this signing. At the end of the year if you asked RedZone how they would feel if Paul Janish was the starting SS for 2010 the overwhelming majority would be totally against that. As the offseason went on it appeared the lovefest for Janish's defense got increasingly bigger and most posters would of been ok with him starting at SS for this year. I'm not one of those people, I like Janish but I feel there was a pretty decent chance he was going to start the season hitting .188 going into May and then we have a huge black hole in the lineup and were rotationg Sutton and Rosales in and out along with Janish getting terrible offensive production out of SS. Will it be a hit defensively? Yeah, Cabrera's getting older and with age comes decline, but with the offensive woes the Reds had in 2009, I'll take the potential extra offense and I'll live with the defensive hit the Reds might take. And please, if a ball happens to sneak through short on the second series of the year, please don't have 8 posts in the game thread say the same thing: Janish gets to that ball.
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  10. #24
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Let's hope he can play more like the 2008 Orlando Cabrera instead of the 2009 version.
    Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?

  11. #25
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    With Cabrera's glove and bat both on the decline, I'm not terribly excited. But it's certainly better than Alex Gonzalez or JHJ.
    sums it up for me....have to admit though that I was anxious to see Janish get a chance and prove us all wrong

  12. #26
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    FWIW, here's what PECOTA sees for Cabrera:

    Code:
    Percentile 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 
    90o 		0.295	0.355	0.430
    75o 		0.283	0.341	0.404
    60o 		0.274	0.331	0.385
    50o 		0.265	0.322	0.366
    40o 		0.259	0.314	0.351
    25o 		0.247	0.300	0.326
    10o 		0.220	0.269	0.269
    Weighted Mean 	0.268	0.325	0.372
    And Paul Janish:
    Code:
    Percentile 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 
    90o 		0.260	0.334	0.406
    75o 		0.240	0.313	0.370
    60o 		0.230	0.303	0.352
    50o 		0.224	0.297	0.343
    40o 		0.220	0.292	0.334
    25o 		0.202	0.273	0.303
    10o 		0.190	0.259	0.280
    Weighted Mean 	0.223	0.296	0.341
    I think Jansih is clearly the superior defender, but Cabrera is still likely an upgrade -- and the price is right. I'd have liked to see Janish get the opportunity personally, given that his BABIP have been ridiculously though, but I'm hardly going to complain about adding legitimate talent.

    For me, the most interesting thing is who they take off the 40 man. I'd have to think it's Sutton. And if Gomes gets signed, then it will be an OF. We can only hope it's Taveras.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 01-31-2010 at 12:13 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?
    Yes. Both the numbers and scouting reports saw a big step down in the defense.

  14. #28
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    Stubbs CF
    Cabrera SS
    Votto 1B
    Phillips 2B
    Rolen 3B
    Bruce RF
    Gomes LF (Hopefully)
    Hernandez/Hanigan C
    Pitcher
    Taking the numbers put up by position last season for Cincinnati:

    CF, SS, RF, and 3B should be light years better than last season.

    2B and 1B may regress.

    C and LF should be a bit better, but are much more difficult to discern.

    Much improved from this time last season.

    So, can we now quit with the whole Jocketty asleep at the wheel ridiculousness?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  15. #29
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    So....

    Stubbs CF
    Cabrera SS
    Votto 1B
    Phillips 2B
    Rolen 3B
    Bruce RF
    Gomes LF (Hopefully)
    Hernandez/Hanigan C
    Pitcher


    It could be worse.
    I think we might be looking at these below as some possibilities. I don't know who will get moved, but, I don't think it will be WT.

    Code:
    So....
    
    Stubbs CF	vs. Right .261 .320 .420 .740		vs. Left .286 .333 .500 .833
    Cabrera SS	vs. Right .289 .311 .400 .711		vs. Left .271 .327 .362 .689
    Votto 1B	vs. Right .319 .419 .583 1.002	        vs. Left .329 .400 .531 .931
    Phillips 2B	vs. Right .267 .324 .416 .740		vs. Left .301 .342 .541 .883
    Rolen 3B	vs. Right .283 .338 .411 .749		vs. Left .374 .459 .591 1.050
    Bruce RF	vs. Right .229 .299 .527 .826		vs. Left .210 .313 .330 .643
    Gomes LF 	vs. Right .244 .320 .539 .859		vs. Left .307 .369 .545 .914
    Hernandez	vs. Right .246 .332 .348 .680		vs. Left .288 .348 .400 .748
    Pitcher
    
    Tevaras CF	vs. Right .247 .285 .294 .579		vs. Left .219 .245 .257 .502
    Cabrera SS	vs. Right .289 .311 .400 .711		vs. Left .271 .327 .362 .689
    Votto 1B	vs. Right .319 .419 .583 1.002	        vs. Left .329 .400 .531 .931
    Phillips 2B	vs. Right .267 .324 .416 .740		vs. Left .301 .342 .541 .883
    Rolen 3B	vs. Right .283 .338 .411 .749		vs. Left .374 .459 .591 1.050
    Bruce RF	vs. Right .229 .299 .527 .826		vs. Left .210 .313 .330 .643
    Nix LF 	        vs. Right .249 .300 .502 .802		vs. Left .156 .206 .250 .456
    Hernandez	vs. Right .246 .332 .348 .680		vs. Left .288 .348 .400 .748
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 01-31-2010 at 12:19 AM.

  16. #30
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?
    In 2008, Cabrera posted a .705 OPS but made up for it with a +14.0 UZR in the field, making him worth +3.5 wins. As you pointed out, Cabrera posted the same exact OPS in 2009 as he did in 2008, however, his defense took a major step backwards as he posted a -15.3 UZR, giving him just a +0.6 WAR. FWIW, Janish was worth 1.1 wins in 2009 thanks to his +11.7 UZR in 592.1 innings at shortstop.

    If Cabrera can rebound defensively in 2010 while maintaining an OPS around .700, he'll be a solid signing. If he repeats his 2009 season then he'll be a downgrade. Expecting him to rebound to being a +12 to +15 defender again is unrealistic, but if he can get back in the +5 range he would be a nice addition.


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