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Thread: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

  1. #31
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kierkegaard
    The leap of faith is his conception of how an individual would believe in God or how a person would act in love. Faith is not a decision based on evidence that, say, certain beliefs about God are true or a certain person is worthy of love. No such evidence could ever be enough to pragmatically justify the kind of total commitment involved in true religious faith or romantic love. Faith involves making that commitment anyway. Kierkegaard thought that to have faith is at the same time to have doubt. So, for example, for one to truly have faith in God, one would also have to doubt one's beliefs about God; the doubt is the rational part of a person's thought involved in weighing evidence, without which the faith would have no real substance. Someone who does not realize that Christian doctrine is inherently doubtful and that there can be no objective certainty about its truth does not have faith but is merely credulous. For example, it takes no faith to believe that a pencil or a table exists, when one is looking at it and touching it. In the same way, to believe or have faith in God is to know that one has no perceptual or any other access to God, and yet still has faith in God.[43] As Kierkegaard writes, "doubt is conquered by faith, just as it is faith which has brought doubt into the world".[44][45]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Trembling
    In Fear and Trembling Kierkegaard introduces the "Knight of Faith" and contrasts him with the "knight of infinite resignation". The latter gives up everything in return for the infinite, that which he may receive after this life, and continuously dwells with the pain of his loss. The former, however, not only relinquishes everything, but also trusts that he will receive it all back, his trust based on the "strength of the absurd".

    For Kierkegaard, infinite resignation is easy, but faith is founded in the belief in the absurd. The absurd is that which is contradictory to reason itself. For Abraham, this faith in the absurd manifests itself in Abraham's belief that he would kill his only son but he would nevertheless receive him again in his lifetime. Silentio's opinion is that what separates Abraham from being a killer is his faith. (In the end of the Genesis 22 story, an angel stops Abraham at the last moment. A ram appears which Abraham takes as a sign from God, and he sacrifices the ram instead of Isaac.)

    An important theme is the conflict between theology and philosophy. According to Kierkegaard, mid-19th-century secular philosophers laughed at faith and saw no mystery in the story of Abraham while professing to find Hegel's philosophy exceedingly difficult. Kierkegaard, however, thought that understanding Hegel was possible (if difficult), but trying to comprehend why Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son caused him to be "virtually annihilated".

    The book was referenced on LA X, an episode of Lost.
    Last edited by klw; 02-03-2010 at 09:30 AM.

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  3. #32
    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    In Fear and Trembling Kierkegaard introduces the "Knight of Faith" and contrasts him with the "knight of infinite resignation". The latter gives up everything in return for the infinite, that which he may receive after this life, and continuously dwells with the pain of his loss. The former, however, not only relinquishes everything, but also trusts that he will receive it all back, his trust based on the "strength of the absurd".
    Cool. That sounds an awful lot like Jacob and Black Shirt Man.
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  4. #33
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by yab1112 View Post
    In the temple, when they hear Jacob is dead they mobilize to defend themselves from the Smoke Monster/New Locke/Black Shirt Guy. But the smoke monster has been roaming free around the island since season one. They want us to think New Locke is the smoke monster, but if that were the case, the Temple Others wouldn't all the sudden be afraid. So, either the smoke monster is its own entity and now that Jacob's dead New Locke has complete control over it...or, New Locke is the smoke monster but was kept somewhat in check by Jacob.

    We really don't have enough info after two episodes to sort out the time line mess but it seems, as Heather mentioned, it's some sort of flash-sideways scenario. The time line splits in 1977 at the moment of The Incident. How are they still alive if the bomb went off? It must be the combination of the bomb and the electromagnetic energy. In the new time line, we see that the Island is underwater. However, Jacob is still around because Locke is alive and we know Jacob's the one who saved Lock when he was pushed out the window.
    A couple of thoughts. Their reaction is to the fact that the Man in Black/Smoke Monster has found "the loophole" to have killed Jacob. That's why they begin mobilizing because they realize that the game has changed, that whatever held the Smoke Monster in check is gone. New Locke is the smoke monster because Locke says to Ben that he was sorry he had to see him act like that (after taking out the three men from the Ajira flight who came into the statue base).

    One thing we did learn, I realized last night afterward, is that the smoke monster cannot penetrate the powder. The powder surrounded Jacob's cabin, it was also set on the ground inside the base by the one guy, but he fell out of that circle when the Smoke Monster threw something at him. Likewise, that was the first line of defense at the temple.

    Back to the Smoke Monster running around previously, again, I think it was held in check by the "loophole" that kept it from killing Jacob.

    Mind blowing episodes last night.
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  5. #34
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Desmond can now be on the plane because he has no longer been stuck on the island pushing buttons for years. His life course changed by not being stuck there. The bomb being set off preceeded when he sailed to the island. Now presumably his boat never sails and he never encounters the island and his life goes on a new course.
    I would tend to agree with you but for one exception:

    There has to be some deja vu mojo working at this time. On the plane, it was obvious that Jack thought he knew Desmond from somewhere before. Sans the existence of the Swan hatch, then that meeting could have only occurred during the Season 1/2? scene where they crossed paths in LA. I think Desmond was there training to sail around the world in Widmore's challenge.

    So, if Desmond's entire purpose in life changed after the explosion (meaning that he had no need to sail around the world), then perhaps he would have never met Jack in the scene I described?

    My head hurts already.
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    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Could it be that the Desmond we saw on the plane was flashing from the other timeline? He pretended not to know Jack because he knows Jack never met him in the new time line. Granted I have nothing to support this theory except that the Desmond on the plane "disappeared," but that would be pretty cool, no?

    Redsmetz, what you were saying about the loophole makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand...at least until next week when they confuse us again
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  7. #36
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    I'm not looking for answers right away but I was thrown off by a new group of others. As for that lady she was a flight attendant for sure. She was the one that took care of the kids that were on the plane with no parents.

    Looking forward to watching it again and being able to skip through commercials.

  8. #37
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    I think they could be doing what they did in Season 4 by showing what happens after they left the islands while simultaneously showing us the events that led to them leaving. In other words, the plane doesn't crash and lands in LAX NOT because of the bomb, but because of whatever events they're showing us on the island now.

    This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.
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  9. #38
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    I'm not looking for answers right away but I was thrown off by a new group of others. As for that lady she was a flight attendant for sure. She was the one that took care of the kids that were on the plane with no parents.

    Looking forward to watching it again and being able to skip through commercials.
    I'll now share some of my thoughts after watching the four minute sneak preview, essentially the closing two minutes of everything being dragged into the shaft and the first two minutes on the plane.

    I felt that Jack had a bit of a look that something had changed, some recognition that he was back on the plane and some of that seemed to be carried out in his and Rose's conversation. Also, the flight attendant only gives him one vodka instead of the two in the Pilot episode (with him using the second on the island to disinfect his wound when Kate sews him up). Likewise, Rose is reading a magazine called "Weekly Woodsman" in the new scenario, whereas in the Pilot, you can't see what the magazine is.

    My guess is that they all have some sort of deja vu going on during these scenes.
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  10. #39
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.
    You may be on to something, MWM...

    I think the fact that the island was underwater was significant. Maybe the scene was showing us what REALLY happens to the island when it is ever 'moved' by someone like Ben.
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  11. #40
    Joey Votto Fangirl HeatherC1212's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Random question: Did we ever see the events that may have led up to Smokey not being in the temple anymore? I remember during the flashes last season, when Jin was with Danielle and the other French guys, that Smokey dragged them into the temple when he was attacking them. I assume that he was still living there in that time frame (1980's?), but obviously we know now that Smokey isn't living at the temple anymore because the other Others are now there. I cannot for the life of me remember if we ever got an explanation about this situation. I have no clue if this is even important or not but it occurred to me this morning while reading some of the recaps on various websites and I'm just curious if anyone else has thought about it.

    BTW-I really wish I had recorded this ep so I could watch it again tonight. Hopefully it's up on ABC.com soon!
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  12. #41
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I think they could be doing what they did in Season 4 by showing what happens after they left the islands while simultaneously showing us the events that led to them leaving. In other words, the plane doesn't crash and lands in LAX NOT because of the bomb, but because of whatever events they're showing us on the island now.

    This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.
    I'm wondering if the Jack/Locke conversation will lead to Jack performing surgery on Locke, allowing him to walk again.

  13. #42
    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC1212 View Post
    Random question: Did we ever see the events that may have led up to Smokey not being in the temple anymore? I remember during the flashes last season, when Jin was with Danielle and the other French guys, that Smokey dragged them into the temple when he was attacking them. I assume that he was still living there in that time frame (1980's?), but obviously we know now that Smokey isn't living at the temple anymore because the other Others are now there. I cannot for the life of me remember if we ever got an explanation about this situation. I have no clue if this is even important or not but it occurred to me this morning while reading some of the recaps on various websites and I'm just curious if anyone else has thought about it.

    BTW-I really wish I had recorded this ep so I could watch it again tonight. Hopefully it's up on ABC.com soon!
    We have examples of the smoke monster in and out of the temple in both time periods. In the 80's, the smoke monster confronts them first in the jungle then drags them to the hole in the temple wall.

    In the present (after the Ajira flight crashed), we see the smoke monster rise from a grate in the temple to confront Ben. So it would seem the monster still does live there.
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  14. #43
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by yab1112 View Post
    We have examples of the smoke monster in and out of the temple in both time periods. In the 80's, the smoke monster confronts them first in the jungle then drags them to the hole in the temple wall.

    In the present (after the Ajira flight crashed), we see the smoke monster rise from a grate in the temple to confront Ben. So it would seem the monster still does live there.
    And at the very end of the Season 5 finale, the dying Jacob says "they're coming," and Fake Locke's eyes get big. Combine that with Smokey still having access to the temple, and maybe it's not Smokey/Fake Locke the temple dwellers are preparing to defend against, even though Jacob's death is obviously the trigger. Which leaves the obvious question, then: who, or what, is coming?
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  15. #44
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    What does everyone think of Juliet wanting to tell Sawyer "It worked"? I think she might have been flashing between the two realities while dying.
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  16. #45
    Test for fancy coffee yab1112's Avatar
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    Re: Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    What does everyone think of Juliet wanting to tell Sawyer "It worked"? I think she might have been flashing between the two realities while dying.
    That's pretty much what I was thinking. Something along the lines of what happened to Charlotte as she was dying. That would fit with the seemingly odd line "We should get some coffee."
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