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Thread: What's the latest with Gomes?

  1. #196
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Ya.

    Hopefully the days where a Gomes would be a starter for the Reds are in the past.
    Unless something unexpected happens, he should walk in as the starter in LF. If he falters, he could easily move to the short side of a platoon and be the power guy off the bench.

    This team will likely need offense next season. Gomes is your best bet in LF for that, at this point.

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  3. #197
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Unless something unexpected happens, he should walk in as the starter in LF. If he falters, he could easily move to the short side of a platoon and be the power guy off the bench.

    This team will likely need offense next season. Gomes is your best bet in LF for that, at this point.
    I'd rather have Dickerson getting the majority of ABs in LF than Gomes to be quite honest.

  4. #198
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I'd rather have Dickerson getting the majority of ABs in LF than Gomes to be quite honest.
    I really can't see why that would be, at least to start the season.

  5. #199
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I really can't see why that would be, at least to start the season.
    Because Gomes has a career .758 OPS against RHP and is a bad defender?

  6. #200
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Because Gomes has a career .758 OPS against RHP and is a bad defender?
    Check out Gomes in 2005 and 2009 vs RHPs, he did just fine vs RHPs. He has had injury problems in between which could explain the lesser stats that we have seen.

    There were similar discussions last year regarding Juan Rivera, how his career stats weren't "up to snuff" and where there may be more to the story than just looking at the career splits section on baseballreference.com.

    He definitely isn't a great defender, but he isn't as bad as the stats say IMO and in the opinion of others on this site. This team needs power, not slap hitters and I'll give up some defense in LF for .200+ pts in SLG.

    Give Gomes the job to open and let Dickerson get some ABs to spell the starters, as a PH and in late inning defensive replacement situations. If Gomes isn't hitting RHPs through one month, turn the platoon job over to Dickerson and Gomes starts vs LHPs.

  7. #201
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Because Gomes has a career .758 OPS against RHP and is a bad defender?
    Of course last year Gomes went .244/.320/.539/.859 in 203 PA vs RHP. Given this team's obvious need for offense capable of hitting in the middle of the order, Gomes would get the job until he loses it. Dickerson should start vs. RHP as well. The guy with .715 OPS at AAA should be the one that needs tp take the job away from them. In the majors last yeat Stubbs OPS vs RHP was only .740. He was .833 vs LHP again in limited time.

    Given the need for thump and Dickerson's success vs. RHP (where its needed most since Rolen, Hernandez and especially Phillips struggle vs. RHP) a platoon is in order but not in LF. With so many regulars struggling vs. RHP, I'd give the guy who put up the .859 OPS in 2009 a lot of rope.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #202
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    I'd give the most talented player a lot of rope. Gomes just isn't that guy.

    What I wouldn't do is assume 200 PAs last season speaks volumes about Gomes' true skill level and I wouldn't ignore the impact of his true skill defensive value on what he might be expected to produce offensively.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #203
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'd give the most talented player a lot of rope. Gomes just isn't that guy.

    What I wouldn't do is assume 200 PAs last season speaks volumes about Gomes' true skill level and I wouldn't ignore the impact of his true skill defensive value on what he might be expected to produce offensively.
    But everyone wants to assume that a guy who had a .715 OPS in AAA and a mediocre .762 in the majors in a similar sample size is the answer. Hmmm.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #204
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    left field defense is definitely the key to this 2010 version of our Reds....no doubt....forget above average defense at every other position(with the exception of first base imo)that left field spot is the difference maker considering that HUGE left field at GABP.

  11. #205
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GADawg View Post
    left field defense is definitely the key to this 2010 version of our Reds....no doubt....forget above average defense at every other position(with the exception of first base imo)that left field spot is the difference maker considering that HUGE left field at GABP.
    Quality strawman.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #206
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    But everyone wants to assume that a guy who had a .715 OPS in AAA and a mediocre .762 in the majors in a similar sample size is the answer. Hmmm.
    There is a massive difference between a 25 year old who plays stellar defense in CF, is in the process of developing his skill sets, and has massive upside and the 29 year old guy with nearly 1800 PA in the majors who is a poor LF.

    Despite his great offense last year, Gomes gave it almost all back with glove. Based on his well established track record, the bat isn't likely to repeat 2009, his glove is.

    I don't think anybody is "assuming" Stubbs is "the answer" in CF. It's just that he's the best option given the possible choices for 2010 and the possibilities beyond. And for all we know, he doesn't actually have the position locked up...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #207
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by GADawg View Post
    left field defense is definitely the key to this 2010 version of our Reds....no doubt....forget above average defense at every other position(with the exception of first base imo)that left field spot is the difference maker considering that HUGE left field at GABP.
    You're right. Left defense doesn't matter at all in any way shape or form. If your LF is too slow to get to a ball which rolls in the corner or the wall in the gap, the runners just stand still and wait for him to chase it down. And if the ball falls 3 feet in front of him when a better defender would have caught it, the runner proceeds to let himself get picked off first base. Lastly, when runs score because your LF couldn't get to that ball, the official scorer just takes them off the scoreboard.

    Gomes' defense doesn't hurt the team because LF defense is important. His ability to play LF is just so bad that it hurts the team in spite of LF's relative unimportance to other positions defensively. Gomes stinks so bad defensively that even hidden away in a tiny LF he still manages to give back enough runs to almost completely offset his offensive contributions.

    I'm certainly not again Gomes in theory. He's just not a good fit for this team given our other options and opportunities.

    (This is where you appeal to your gut telling you that it simply cannot be true, that sabermetricians should a watch a game every once in a while, plug fingers in your eyes, and continue to sing your "LF defense is completely irrelevant" song...)
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #208
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    First of all, I don't really care all that much about Gomes' OPS against righties since he will get the majority of his bats against lefties. If he signs with the Reds, it will be to be a platoon player in LF and a power-hitting pinch hitter on the days he's not in the lineup. Secondly, .780 career OPS against righties isn't terrible, so it's not like he's a lost cause when he faces righties. Thirdly, as others have mentioned, the Reds (finally) have solid defense in most every other position on the field. We can afford to have Jonny Gomes start 70 or so games in LF if it comes to that. His bat makes up for his glove and there is good defense all around him. What is going to be the weakness of this team IMO? Scoring runs. Gomes will help in that department.

  15. #209
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    First of all, I don't really care all that much about Gomes' OPS against righties since he will get the majority of his bats against lefties. If he signs with the Reds, it will be to be a platoon player in LF and a power-hitting pinch hitter on the days he's not in the lineup. Secondly, .780 career OPS against righties isn't terrible, so it's not like he's a lost cause when he faces righties. Thirdly, as others have mentioned, the Reds (finally) have solid defense in most every other position on the field. We can afford to have Jonny Gomes start 70 or so games in LF if it comes to that. His bat makes up for his glove and there is good defense all around him. What is going to be the weakness of this team IMO? Scoring runs. Gomes will help in that department.
    Considering this conversation started by edabbs saying Gomes should "walk into camp and be the starter in LF" and "get the majority of ABs" his OPS against right handed pitching was relevant.

    And his .780 OPS combined with his defense is real bad.

  16. #210
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Considering this conversation started by edabbs saying Gomes should "walk into camp and be the starter in LF" and "get the majority of ABs" his OPS against right handed pitching was relevant.

    And his .780 OPS combined with his defense is real bad.
    But I guess his injuries aren't relevant? He has had 2 pretty successful years versus RHP and they were both injury free. What I am saying is that he deserves a shot until proven otherwise.

    We know Dickerson can probably give us .280/.350/.370. But it would be nice to have more than that.


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