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Thread: What's the latest with Gomes?

  1. #46
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can put the 2006-2008 stats up on the board...but if you do so, I'd say its only fair to put his 2009 line up as well. 2009 is exponentially more important to the 2010 Gomes line than is his 2006 line.
    so three straight seasons of injury and low OBP aren't as important as a career year in a prime age of 28, where he still couldn't top 325 AB's?

    Exactly why does everyone want to keep him? Nothing he brings to the table can't be replicated by what the Reds already have, and if they really wanted to make a splash, throw 6-7 mil at Damon.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  3. #47
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    so three straight seasons of injury and low OBP aren't as important as a career year in a prime age of 28, where he still couldn't top 325 AB's?

    Exactly why does everyone want to keep him? Nothing he brings to the table can't be replicated by what the Reds already have, and if they really wanted to make a splash, throw 6-7 mil at Damon.
    You can make a case that his career year was 2005. Thats beside the point. I just found it funny that the poster put up the 2006-2008 stats to beat Gomes down, but conviently left out the impressive bookend years of 2005 and 2009.

    Of course I'd rather have Damon. That argument is ridiculous. However, if the Reds don't have the money/don't want to spend the money to get Damon...I want Gomes...especially on the cheap.

  4. #48
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    2006-2008 show two things to me. 1 he had injury issues. 2 AL pitcher figured him out after 2005.

    2009 shows us that NL pitchers started figuring him out in september, when he should have been mashing. And he still got nicked up a bit.

    He's so very replaceable.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  5. #49
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    2006-2008 show two things to me. 1 he had injury issues. 2 AL pitcher figured him out after 2005.

    2009 shows us that NL pitchers started figuring him out in september, when he should have been mashing. And he still got nicked up a bit.

    He's so very replaceable.
    So to be clear, if the Reds can sign Gomes for 1 Million, you would pass. If so, I just agree to disagree.

  6. #50
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    He couldn't get AB's on a terrible TB team. He's a platoon DH that has a history of injury issues. I like his power, but the comparisons to Dunn that I've read are laughable. Gomes isn't even Branyan-lite.
    I haven't made any comparisons between Gomes and Dunn. It's pretty obvious who'd come out on top and it's not even close. If I had to pick between Branyan and Gomes, I'd take the former. That said, if you're going to criticize Gomes for his lack of PA per season, that same criticism should be leveled at Branyan, who tends to play even less than Gomes. And it's not like Branyan gets on base more; his career OBP is .001 higher than Gomes'.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can make a case that his career year was 2005. Thats beside the point. I just found it funny that the poster put up the 2006-2008 stats to beat Gomes down, but conviently left out the impressive bookend years of 2005 and 2009.
    Nothing convenient about it. I was talking to TRF about those three years because that's what he brought up.

  7. #51
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Russell Branyan is still looking for work.

    Thome was until very recently.

    In fact a lot of guys are looking for work. Welcome to the new baseball economy.
    Yep, maybe it's mini-collusion, but across the industry, the owners are realizing that guys like Gomes are just not that critical, and it's better to wait them out.

    OCarbera probably fell into that catagory as well. The Reds had a tight budget, so they waited him out and worked out a way to dump Wily to fit him in.. Maybe that's not reality.. Maybe they had plenty of money for OC, but they are playing the poor game.

    The owners have always said that paying the superstars big money isn't a problem. It's a problem when your roster is full of mediocre guys making 6-10 milliion. (I know Gomes doesn't fall into that category).

    Actually, I'd rather them wait out Gomes and maybe lose him, as opposed to panicing and signing him to a Freel like contract. Arguably, Walt made that mistake once already with Wily (giving him a 2 year deal last year).
    Now Walt probably knows that the best Gomes is going to get is a one year deal.

    There's a good point though. Gomes' agent could've probably gotten him a ML contract by settling within the first 4 weeks of the offseason. Hernandez' agent was pretty smart to strike a deal while the Reds still had some cash to spend. Instead Gomes' agent tried to play hardball and try arb, and the Reds wisely declined. I think that's also the owners' new policy.. If you are a tweener, you better learn that we won't go to arb with you.. it's take it or leave it. A lot of clubs are doing that now.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #52
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can put the 2006-2008 stats up on the board...but if you do so, I'd say its only fair to put his 2009 line up as well. 2009 is exponentially more important to the 2010 Gomes line than is his 2006 line.
    Last three years:

    .240/.320/.474/.794 - 800-ish PAs

    Career:

    .241/.330/.471/.801 - 1700-ish PAs

    2009:

    .267./.338/.541/.879 - 300-ish PAs
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  9. #53
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    There's an argument against picking up Gomes. Balentien.

    Reds don't have a full time left fielder.

    Lefty hitting platoon is Dickerson. If he falters, it's Nix. Not exactly Ted Williams but both guys have their talents.

    Right side. If no Gomes, it's Balentien or Heisey. Personally, I think Heisey will be at AAA or possibly at the end of the Reds' bench. But why isn't Balentien ready to platoon in left?

    If Gomes is signed, Balentien becomes a fifth outfielder or possibly won't even make the team. Based on last year, he seems to field the position ok and has huge power.

    While I'd like to see Gomes added as a veteran righty bat, aren't the Reds downgrading Balentien with a Gomes signing and are they better off just giving Wlad the platoon job in left?

  10. #54
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Last three years:

    .240/.320/.474/.794 - 800-ish PAs

    Career:

    .241/.330/.471/.801 - 1700-ish PAs

    2009:

    .267./.338/.541/.879 - 300-ish PAs
    Now that's fair. So we have a guy whose OPS is .794 over the past 3 years, which is slightly off the clip of a ML average LF (I'm basing that on the 2006-2008 numbers listed a page ago...I'm guessing they are pretty close for 2009). And said players best season of the 3 (so it should be weighted a touch higher than 07 and 08) was last season, where he played 3/5 of the year regularly, and posted an above average OPS for a LF. So why wouldn't you at least sign the guy to a minor league deal, if not give him a 1 Million dollar deal right now? If the likely price of Gomes wasn't so cheap...I wouldn't be so on board with him. I just think for his likely price, he presents a great value.

  11. #55
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There's an argument against picking up Gomes. Balentien.

    Reds don't have a full time left fielder.

    Lefty hitting platoon is Dickerson. If he falters, it's Nix. Not exactly Ted Williams but both guys have their talents.

    Right side. If no Gomes, it's Balentien or Heisey. Personally, I think Heisey will be at AAA or possibly at the end of the Reds' bench. But why isn't Balentien ready to platoon in left?

    If Gomes is signed, Balentien becomes a fifth outfielder or possibly won't even make the team. Based on last year, he seems to field the position ok and has huge power.

    While I'd like to see Gomes added as a veteran righty bat, aren't the Reds downgrading Balentien with a Gomes signing and are they better off just giving Wlad the platoon job in left?
    Balentien career OPS...655.

    Gomes...801.

  12. #56
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    There's an argument against picking up Gomes. Balentien.

    Reds don't have a full time left fielder.

    Lefty hitting platoon is Dickerson. If he falters, it's Nix. Not exactly Ted Williams but both guys have their talents.

    Right side. If no Gomes, it's Balentien or Heisey. Personally, I think Heisey will be at AAA or possibly at the end of the Reds' bench. But why isn't Balentien ready to platoon in left?

    If Gomes is signed, Balentien becomes a fifth outfielder or possibly won't even make the team. Based on last year, he seems to field the position ok and has huge power.

    While I'd like to see Gomes added as a veteran righty bat, aren't the Reds downgrading Balentien with a Gomes signing and are they better off just giving Wlad the platoon job in left?
    I agree completely. Given that Gomes' defense is sufficiently bad to limit the value of his offense significantly, he's just additional, lower-ceiling depth that we don't really need and which could siphon PA away from higher upside guys who need the opportunity.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #57
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Now that's fair. So we have a guy whose OPS is .794 over the past 3 years, which is slightly off the clip of a ML average LF (I'm basing that on the 2006-2008 numbers listed a page ago...I'm guessing they are pretty close for 2009). And said players best season of the 3 (so it should be weighted a touch higher than 07 and 08) was last season, where he played 3/5 of the year regularly, and posted an above average OPS for a LF. So why wouldn't you at least sign the guy to a minor league deal, if not give him a 1 Million dollar deal right now? If the likely price of Gomes wasn't so cheap...I wouldn't be so on board with him. I just think for his likely price, he presents a great value.
    Here's 2009 for LF: .267/.338/.442/.780

    For DH: .255/.337/.443/.780

  14. #58
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Balentien career OPS...655.

    Gomes...801.
    Gomes: 30 years old, borderline DH. His defense almost completely offset his offense last year.

    Balentien: 25 years old, good fielder. Between the M's and Reds, he actually provided slightly greater WAR than Gomes last year.

    Yes, Gomes is a better hitter than most of our other options. But in the NL, you can't get a guy's offense without getting his defense too. And given the whole picture, he's not an upgrade over our current set of options.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #59
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Now that's fair. So we have a guy whose OPS is .794 over the past 3 years, which is slightly off the clip of a ML average LF (I'm basing that on the 2006-2008 numbers listed a page ago...I'm guessing they are pretty close for 2009). And said players best season of the 3 (so it should be weighted a touch higher than 07 and 08)
    Why?

    was last season, where he played 3/5 of the year regularly, and posted an above average OPS for a LF.
    But not an average number of PAs for a LF.

    So why wouldn't you at least sign the guy to a minor league deal, if not give him a 1 Million dollar deal right now? If the likely price of Gomes wasn't so cheap...I wouldn't be so on board with him. I just think for his likely price, he presents a great value.
    Well, I disagree that he presents great value. To me, Chris Dickerson provides great value because of his entire game and the fact that he's making league minimum (or close to it.) Gomes, at a million is kind of a one-trick pony and that trick is OK, but not great.

    Now, I'm not hating on Gomes because he seems like a good guy to have on the team but I think his "trick" becomes a lot less valuable at seven figures. If Walt can get him on another minor league deal with some incentives, I think that's probably marginally worth it. Otherwise, save the money for the draft or try to shore up the starting pitching.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  16. #60
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Balentien career OPS...655.

    Gomes...801.
    And the number of PAs, their age and the kind of defense they play would be?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


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