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Thread: What's the latest with Gomes?

  1. #61
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    And the number of PAs, their age and the kind of defense they play would be?
    And the potential upside is?

    There's a good argument for Wlad. More certainty with Gomes.

    Tempting to use Wlad as a platoon with Dickerson and see what happens.

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  3. #62
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Gomes: 30 years old, borderline DH. His defense almost completely offset his offense last year.
    Am I the only one who DIDN'T see this? Gomes wasn't a gold glover out there to be sure, but he also didn't embarrass himself either. I might be in the minority but I thought he handled the position defensively adequetly.
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  4. #63
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Am I the only one who DIDN'T see this? Gomes wasn't a gold glover out there to be sure, but he also didn't embarrass himself either. I might be in the minority but I thought he handled the position defensively adequetly.
    He's pretty slow, which hurts him more than anything else.

  5. #64
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Am I the only one who DIDN'T see this? Gomes wasn't a gold glover out there to be sure, but he also didn't embarrass himself either. I might be in the minority but I thought he handled the position defensively adequetly.
    Yeah, for a guy that supposedly "completely sucks" defensively ... I thought he held his own the vast majority of the time. Got some bad jumps and things of that nature, but usually got the job done. Never looked pretty doing it, but there is no way that his defense offset his offense. He raked in 281 at-bats. Would he have kept that pace up over 400-450 ABs? Probably not, but who knows. The point is that he's proven he can hit at this level at least in a platoon role. Last year was not even his career year. And while he's not going to help you defensively, he won't kill you in LF.

    It's kind of like the reverse Paul Janish. For a "great" defensive shortstop, he is more like "good" IMO.

  6. #65
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    He's pretty slow, which hurts him more than anything else.
    Okay, but when he's got Stubbs next to him, I don't see that as being much of a hinderance.
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  7. #66
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Defense can only help to a point...at some stage you will need to score some runs.

  8. #67
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Okay, but when he's got Stubbs next to him, I don't see that as being much of a hinderance.
    Left field defense sometimes "happens" in places that aren't accessible to an adjacent fielder. It also sometimes "happens" after the catch.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  9. #68
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Left field defense sometimes "happens" in places that aren't accessible to an adjacent fielder. It also sometimes "happens" after the catch.
    Yep. There's that whole "down the line" thing, not to mention that if Stubbs has to move towards LF, he won't be able to cover as much ground in the RCF gap.

  10. #69
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Am I the only one who DIDN'T see this? Gomes wasn't a gold glover out there to be sure, but he also didn't embarrass himself either. I might be in the minority but I thought he handled the position defensively adequetly.
    A few thoughts:

    1) We put up with years of Dunn's defense in LF, skewing our baseline of what acceptable defense in LF looks like

    2) The defensive metrics which use batted ball data (that I've seen) are unanimous in showing him as a consistently below average LF.

    3) In terms of watching somebody play defense, our eyes are biased. If a fast guy takes a bad route and the ball squirts by him, we think that the guy screwed up and count it against him. If a guy just gets a mediocre jump and doesn't have the wheels to get to the ball, despite taking a good route, we count it as a hit and don't hold it against him. Same outcome, both resulting from a lack of defensive ability -- different judgment. Particularly when it comes to OF, people have a hard time placing the performance their seeing in a neutral context.

    By contrast, most of our other LF candidates are above average defensively. That offsets a good portion of, if not all, of the differential value his bat provides.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Gomes belongs on a major league roster somewhere. I just don't think it's in Cincy given the traffic jam of imperfect candidates we already have -- some of whom have much more upside than Gomes. I don't think he represents much of an upgrade, if any, to the major league roster and don't want him taking away PA from developing players in AAA.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 02-03-2010 at 05:00 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #70
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Yep. There's that whole "down the line" thing, not to mention that if Stubbs has to move towards LF, he won't be able to cover as much ground in the RCF gap.
    I ask because I don't know but how much weight does playing the ball off the wall or down the line have in the UZR ratings? Playing short hops, balls off the wall, balls down the line, has a lot to do with practice as well as hand eye coordination. Gomes may not have a big range factor but Stubbs should be able to help that out. I don't think the RCF gap will be much of an issue if you have Stubbs and Bruce, two plus defenders out there.

  12. #71
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Those on here not wanting Gomes, were you unhappy with his 09 performance? I wasn't and I'd gamble a small amount of payroll to see if he can keep it up in 10. If if someone else steps up...all the better
    Last edited by kaldaniels; 02-03-2010 at 06:36 PM.

  13. #72
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Those on here not wanting Gomes, were you unhappy with his 09 performance? I wasn't and I'd gamble a small amount of payroll too see if he can keep it up in 10. If if someone else steps up...all the better.
    the Reds in house candidates for LF are numerous but all have warts or question marks.

    Gomes will clearly give us a good bat vs left handed starters. if he gets beat out as a starter/everyday left fielder by one of our prospects then he would make a fine bench bat. if the Reds can sign him to a cheap minor league deal whats not to like?
    .

  14. #73
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Those on here not wanting Gomes, were you unhappy with his 09 performance? I wasn't and I'd gamble a small amount of payroll too see if he can keep it up in 10. If if someone else steps up...all the better.
    This is what surprises me about the general consensus about Gomes this year. I took a look at the thread about when Gomes was signed to the Minor League contract last year, and almost EVERYONE was on board. Even someone commented about it being the first move that RedsZone universally liked. Then Gomes goes out and has a great season (considering what he was getting paid, and how badly we needed a right handed masher), and now people seem 50/50 on him. I honestly don't get it.

    I'm also in the camp that believes his defense is not as bad as advertised, and that we can spare the LF defense, as the rest of our D is very solid, and we need any bat we can get right now.

  15. #74
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    the Reds in house candidates for LF are numerous but all have warts or question marks.

    Gomes will clearly give us a good bat vs left handed starters. if he gets beat out as a starter/everyday left fielder by one of our prospects then he would make a fine bench bat. if the Reds can sign him to a cheap minor league deal whats not to like?
    I think this is a good analysis of the subject and a good solution. I have no problem signing Gomes. But I would want to make sure Balentien has the opportunity to emerge, if he can, even if Gomes winds up on the bench.

    Mostly, I wouldn't mind Gomes on the team because he and Rolen and Cabrera and Hernandez are tough position players who like to win and know what they are doing out there.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-03-2010 at 06:01 PM.

  16. #75
    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: What's the latest with Gomes?

    when you look back at recent outfield gold glove winners you won't find very many left fielders....tons of cf'ers and plenty of rf'ers. This isn't to say that you can stick any stiff out in left but it is further evidence that if you have to be weak somewhere defensively that you look to left field(depending on your park of course). Even more evidence would be that every time you have a bat that you want to get into the lineup everyone seems to always suggest that they stick them in left field...Francisco and Votto would be recent examples.


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