Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 159

Thread: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

  1. #16
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    4,138

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    I hope Mesoraco makes it, but he was easily the most disappointing player I have witnessed over the last decade or so at Dayton. If he sticks for any amount of time as a backup at the MLB level I'd be stunned-shockified-flabergasted-speechless.

    I like seeing some of the more athletic guys at catcher ... especially those guys with a pretty good arm and a bat that isn't likely to make them a plus at another position.

    GL

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,866

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Mesoraco was a good pick, who's done everything asked of him, while progressing at the pace he was meant to be on and doing so with positive results. AA is where you get most of your education as a Catcher to prepare you for the Majors. I hope Mesoraco spends the whole year there this season, and I really don't care what he hits. His hitting will come. We have the opportunity to have an above average hitter in the Majors combined with above average Catching skills, while he becomes a starter in the Majors as a Catcher at a young age (24).

    Have another one buddy!
    Go BLUE!!!

  4. #18
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    He can battle Alonso for PT.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #19
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    13,439

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    While he didn't tear up the FSL, his numbers weren't a huge drop from the Midwest league. That's mildly encouraging. Personally, I wouldn't promote him to AA out of ST. let him show what he can do this year at High A.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,866

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    While he didn't tear up the FSL, his numbers weren't a huge drop from the Midwest league. That's mildly encouraging. Personally, I wouldn't promote him to AA out of ST. let him show what he can do this year at High A.
    What do you do with Coddington- who clearly outperformed him in Dayton and is ready for High-A?
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,414

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    I hope Mesoraco makes it, but he was easily the most disappointing player I have witnessed over the last decade or so at Dayton. If he sticks for any amount of time as a backup at the MLB level I'd be stunned-shockified-flabergasted-speechless.

    I like seeing some of the more athletic guys at catcher ... especially those guys with a pretty good arm and a bat that isn't likely to make them a plus at another position.

    GL
    If you only saw him in Dayton, then wipe your memory clean. The scouting reports on him defensively were so drastically different from Dayton to Sarasota it wasn't funny.

  8. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,414

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    What do you do with Coddington- who clearly outperformed him in Dayton and is ready for High-A?
    And there is the problem and why we will likely see Mesoraco in Carolina to start the year. Coddington clearly deserves the promotion to High A. Peripherally, Mesoraco likely has a strong argument for the promotion to AA. His walk rate was above average for the league, much less his age. Same with his power (Isolated Power, not SLG). His defense was much improved and his arm is starting to really show up now that it seems he has his mechanics working together well (in the past that was always my issue with his throwing down runners - he was trying to do everything perfectly rather than just doing it and it was taking too long, so his good arm was playing way down because it took to long from the time he caught the ball to the release that it didn't matter how hard he was throwing it down there).

  9. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,866

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And there is the problem and why we will likely see Mesoraco in Carolina to start the year. Coddington clearly deserves the promotion to High A. Peripherally, Mesoraco likely has a strong argument for the promotion to AA. His walk rate was above average for the league, much less his age. Same with his power (Isolated Power, not SLG). His defense was much improved and his arm is starting to really show up now that it seems he has his mechanics working together well (in the past that was always my issue with his throwing down runners - he was trying to do everything perfectly rather than just doing it and it was taking too long, so his good arm was playing way down because it took to long from the time he caught the ball to the release that it didn't matter how hard he was throwing it down there).
    I would start them both in High A. Let Mesoraco catch 4-5 days a week while Coddington DH's, and vice versa on the other 2-3 days. That way both get to hit everyday, and D-Mes continues to sharpen his defensive skills.

    If Mesoraco continues to get thrust through the system, he will continue to put up mediocre results and never amount to much. Not suggesting he will amount to much if he stays in High-A, but it definitely increases his chances of long-term success.

    Mesoraco was prioritized as a draft pick and subsequent investment. His development needs to be prioritized as well if they are ever going to come close to recouping their investment. Prioritizing his development does not mean shoving him into the next league in which he doesn't belong, just because it's the easiest/most convenient thing to do.
    Last edited by Benihana; 02-03-2010 at 02:17 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  10. #24
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,414

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I would start them both in High A. Let Mesoraco catch 4-5 days a week while Coddington DH's, and vice versa on the other 2-3 days. That way both get to hit everyday, and D-Mes continues to sharpen his defensive skills.

    If Mesoraco continues to get thrust through the system, he will continue to put up mediocre results and never amount to much. Not suggesting he will amount to much if he stays in High-A, but it definitely increases his chances of long-term success.
    Can I ask why he could increase his long term success if his peripheral rates were solid to strong in High A if you made him repeat it? If he had a 5% walk rate and a 21% strikeout rate with a .100 IsoP, then sure. But he had a 10% walk rate and a .153 IsoP with a 21% strikeout rate. Nothing about that says he was mediocre given the league.

    Here is how the league looked and Mesoraco who spent the year at 20/21 (birthday in late June:

    Code:
    Player	         BB%	K%	K/BB	IsoP
    Mesoraco	9.0%	21.3%	2.2	.153
    Avg 20 yr	7.7%	18.4%	2.4	.112
    Avg 21 yr	8.8%	18.6%	2.1	.100
    So for his age, he was above average in walks, well above average in power, average in K/BB and slightly below average in K rate. Overall given his position he plays too, thats a guy that was better than the league at the plate for his age and his defense made pretty good strides too once he was healthy. Not sure that is a guy who you hold back to repeat a level.

  11. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,866

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Can I ask why he could increase his long term success if his peripheral rates were solid to strong in High A if you made him repeat it? If he had a 5% walk rate and a 21% strikeout rate with a .100 IsoP, then sure. But he had a 10% walk rate and a .153 IsoP with a 21% strikeout rate. Nothing about that says he was mediocre given the league.

    Here is how the league looked and Mesoraco who spent the year at 20/21 (birthday in late June:

    Code:
    Player	         BB%	K%	K/BB	IsoP
    Mesoraco	9.0%	21.3%	2.2	.153
    Avg 20 yr	7.7%	18.4%	2.4	.112
    Avg 21 yr	8.8%	18.6%	2.1	.100
    So for his age, he was above average in walks, well above average in power, average in K/BB and slightly below average in K rate. Overall given his position he plays too, thats a guy that was better than the league at the plate for his age and his defense made pretty good strides too once he was healthy. Not sure that is a guy who you hold back to repeat a level.
    Because I would like to see him show some actual results (both in statistics and scouting reports,) not just one person's cherrypicked peripherals. Doug, I'm not going to get into the same tired debate with you. I think everyone knows where you stand on this issue.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #26
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,414

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Because I would like to see him show some actual results (both in statistics and scouting reports,) not just one person's cherrypicked peripherals. Doug, I'm not going to get into the same tired debate with you. I think everyone knows where you stand on this issue.
    Its not cherry picked peripherals. We know which peripherals lead to good hitting and I showed them. It not like I plucked out his IFFB% or GB3B% (groundball to 3B). While I would also like to see some actual numbers show up, when a guy has good peripherals in the FSL but the slash line doesn't match it, there generally isn't something to worry about. Guys with good peripherals in the FSL tend to hit well once they leave the league.

  13. #27
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,642

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Its not cherry picked peripherals. We know which peripherals lead to good hitting and I showed them. It not like I plucked out his IFFB% or GB3B% (groundball to 3B). While I would also like to see some actual numbers show up, when a guy has good peripherals in the FSL but the slash line doesn't match it, there generally isn't something to worry about. Guys with good peripherals in the FSL tend to hit well once they leave the league.
    Trouble with Mesoraco is that his slash line has been awful at every stop he's made, not just the FSL.

    At some point, the kid has to start producing raw numbers. He's young, so he has plenty of time, but OBPs of .310, .311, and .311 aren't going to cut it, especially when his SLG is held down by his inconsistent contact rate.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  14. #28
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,414

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Trouble with Mesoraco is that his slash line has been awful at every stop he's made, not just the FSL.

    At some point, the kid has to start producing raw numbers. He's young, so he has plenty of time, but OBPs of .310, .311, and .311 aren't going to cut it, especially when his SLG is held down by his inconsistent contact rate.
    There were differing reasons his slash line has been bad though. In the GCL there was absolutely no power to speak of. In Dayton his walk rate was quite low (6%, compared to 10% in Sarasota). His contact rate hasn't been the problem really (only topped 20% once in 3 seasons). In the past its been a lack of power or walks. His peripherals looked like what you want to see out of a prospect in the FSL. Joey Votto at a similar age (Votto was nearly a year older) for example walked at the same rate, struck out more (though he did have the take the first pitch rule, he was still 2% higher in the K department) and had an IsoP of .169 to Mesoraco's .153 in the FSL. Peripherally, Mesoraco looked like he had a strong 2009 season. Whether he takes those peripherals forward is yet to be determined, but if he does, he will likely be fine at the plate unless he runs like Sean Casey wearing concrete boots.

  15. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,577

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Most fans of their home teams, even what appears to be more patient and thoughtful fans that we have here on REDSZONE, still seek instant gratification.

    Why someone would expect Mesoraco to spend less than 5 years in the minors and be dissatisfied with 5-1/2 years is not realistic? It's fandemonium. (yes, it's a madeup word).

    For all of you who are "disappointed" with Mesoraco, you need to rethink your expecations. Three years from now, when Mesoraco is still a very young player, you'll be cheering him in his Cincinnati uniform. Only half of the players picked where he picks make it that far. He'll be of the half that makes it.

    He's exceeded my expectations. I didn't think his defense would improve this quickly.

  16. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,577

    Re: Neftali Soto - Catcher?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    While he didn't tear up the FSL, his numbers weren't a huge drop from the Midwest league. That's mildly encouraging. Personally, I wouldn't promote him to AA out of ST. let him show what he can do this year at High A.
    I'm OK with that, too, but I'd rather he spent 1-1/2 to 2 years in AA.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 02-03-2010 at 06:58 PM.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25