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Thread: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Say what you want about the Pirates, top to bottom, The Astros might be worse. Based on ESPN’s depth chart, The Astros have question marks at C, SS and 3B. 2B is Kaz Matsui, a guy that can hit .300, steal 25+ bases and field his position well. He also can’t stay healthy. Last year was the first time he topped 114 games in a season as a MLB player, and it was arguably his worst season too. He’s had flashes, but at age 34, his time is coming to an end. SS is Tommy Manzella, the classic no hit SS of yesteryear. Expect to see a lot of Jeff Keppinger at SS when his OBP hovers around .275. So they’ll live with Kepps “fall down” range at SS in the hope that his bat makes up for it. The Astros will be hoping for Kep’s 2007 line, but will likely get his career line .279 .333 .390 .723. 3B is Pedro Feliz and Geoff Blum. Out machines. Neither has much pop, neither are getting any younger. 2009 was one of the very few times Berkman didn’t play 150 games. And he still posted fantastic numbers. He’s this team’s best offensive threat, and a very good glove at 1B.

    Michael Bourn was what Willy Taveras was supposed to be for the Reds. Except Bourn walked 63 times. His walk rate jumped a little from 2008 to 2009, but the big jump was in his BA. That caused a 66 point jump in his OBP. Is Bourn a .280 hitter? If he is, then the leadoff spot in Houston is set for a long time. I like the Houston OF as a whole. Hunter Pence is a solid player, though he should never attempt to steal a base again. He has just enough speed to think he has speed. Carlos Lee is a solid thumper that gets on base. But to paraphrase Bill James, he fields his position with all the aplomb of a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

    ESPN has Roy Oswalt listed as the Astros #1 starter, but with due respect, that title is Wany Rodriguez’ now. Wandy has filthy stuff, K’d 193 in 205 IP. BB’d only 63. He’s a power LH starter. Reds fans should hope that Chapman is eventually as good as Wandy. Past the top two, the rotation is unproven or washed up. Myers and Moehler are penciled in as the #4 and #5 starters. Bud Norris has 10 career MLB starts, but impressive minor league numbers. A very good 9.5 K/9, but 3+ BB/9 too. Reminds me of that Bailey kid. If he can harness his stuff, he has a chance to be a successful SP.

    The Astros have a lot of problems. The infield minus Berkman is a wreck, 3/5 of the rotation potentially is below average to bad. The bullpen isn’t very good either. An unproven closer that just had a cyst drained in his shoulder, a setup guy in Lindstrom that has seen his production decline three straight years, and no one else stands out. The OF plus Berkman can keep them in games offensively, and Oswalt/Wandy could combine for 30+ wins.

    But that won’t put them in contention for even the Wild Card.
    Last edited by TRF; 02-10-2010 at 12:16 PM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    This team reminds me quite a bit of the mid 2000 Reds. The Astro's are a team that will have to outscore the opponent on most nights. Their farm system is also pretty bad to say the least.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    The Astros have very, very dark days ahead of them. They need some major personnel changes and fast.

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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    The Astros have very, very dark days ahead of them. They need some major personnel changes and fast.
    I think that's one of the big reasons Drayton's trying to sell the club. The downward spiral started about 5 years ago when they kept bringing in aging players at the expense of prospects. This is gonna be a bad, BAD club.

    (And I love it...I've gotten crap from all my friends down here for years about the Reds versus the 'stros...can't wait for the turnaround)
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    This team reminds me quite a bit of the mid 2000 Reds. The Astro's are a team that will have to outscore the opponent on most nights. Their farm system is also pretty bad to say the least.
    Except that team could hit. This offense has maybe two, three at the most, guys that can change a game with the bat. And Carlos Lee is no Adam Dunn power wise. The Reds from 2003-2006 could hit the ball.

    What is odd for me as a fan, is as much as I'd like to see the Pirates return to being a successful franchise, I like the fact that Houston is hurting, and will for a loooong time.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I think that's one of the big reasons Drayton's trying to sell the club. The downward spiral started about 5 years ago when they kept bringing in aging players at the expense of prospects. This is gonna be a bad, BAD club.

    (And I love it...I've gotten crap from all my friends down here for years about the Reds versus the 'stros...can't wait for the turnaround)
    Drayton is a delusional nut.

    He's asking almost a full $100 mil more for the Astros than the Rangers just sold for a few weeks ago.

    How he came to the conclusion that his club was worth that much more is beyond me.

    I doubt he sells for a long, long time.

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    What is odd for me as a fan, is as much as I'd like to see the Pirates return to being a successful franchise, I like the fact that Houston is hurting, and will for a loooong time.
    I agree with this.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Drayton is a delusional nut.

    He's asking almost a full $100 mil more for the Astros than the Rangers just sold for a few weeks ago.

    How he came to the conclusion that his club was worth that much more is beyond me.

    I doubt he sells for a long, long time.
    4th largest TV market I believe. There is value in that. I think the frranchise is worth more than the Rangers, but not THAT much more.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    4th largest TV market I believe. There is value in that. I think the frranchise is worth more than the Rangers, but not THAT much more.
    Per Nielson - Dallas is a larger TV Market

    http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

    Houston the city has about a million more people, but the Dallas Metro in the last census was larger by about half a million people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tistical_Areas

    Either way, Drayton's sipping a little too much of the koolaid if he thinks his team is worth that much more.

  11. #10
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    The Astros have more history. The Rangers are the most generic of franchises. When did Dallas pass Houston in tv market size? I mean I know the Metroplex has been growing, But Houston is a port.

    Plus in order of importance in Dallas... The Cowboys, The Mavs, The Stars, then the Rangers. In Houston, I think the Astros and Rockets are about even, with the Texans gaining in popularity.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #11
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: The Rest of the Central: The Houston Astros

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    4th largest TV market I believe. There is value in that. I think the frranchise is worth more than the Rangers, but not THAT much more.
    Bingo. He's right to price is considerably higher than the Rangers...but considering the state of the franchise...he's dreaming if he'll get a buyer at that price.

    Even with piss-poor teams, Minute Maid is usually pretty jammed. Same can't be said for the Rangers. TV market or not...there's money to be had with Houston compared to the Rangers.
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG


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