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Thread: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

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    Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    This probably deserves a thread of its own.

    Price hints Chapman could start in majors
    Posted by jfay February 18th, 2010, 5:35 pm

    New pitch coach Bryan Price spelled out the plan for Aroldis Chapman and at least hinted that the 21-year-old Cuban could start the year in the big leagues.

    “There’s no question that what’s best is we do what is right for him in the long run. He could start anywhere. But we want to assess him and make sure it’s the right place. Maybe it’s in Cincinnati. Maybe it’s somewhere else in our system. Turn him loose. Let him compete and see what he’s all about.”

    What’s the The Plan?

    “The plan is to get him ready as we do, to get him acclimated to way we do things here both from a throwing perspective and strength and conditioning, which we introduced back in January. We’re going to hone that and improve upon that.

    “Then we’re going to get him into ballgames and let him compete. I don’t think there’s any reason to say we’ve got any kind of perimeters on him. We all saw WBC games. We’re looking forward to seeing him in regular games. There’s nothing like watching guys with your own eyes and making assessments where he fits best.”

    Price is familiar with Chapman because the two worked together for a week in January. Thursday’s session was more of the same.

    “I saw what I’ve seen a few other times before. It’s a live arm and he’s ready to compete. I think this kid could go into a ballgame tomorrow and be ready to compete. He’s extremely athletic. He’s a quick learner. His stuff better now, at least in my opinion, than it was in WBC from a command and delivery standpoint. I’m looking forward to seeing him pitch and learn. He’s going to have to adjust to way the hitters adjust to him. He’s going to have to command the zone consistently and keep himself in good counts.

    “There are certain things you can’t answer until he competes . . . there’s a lot of things we don’t know about.”

    “Certainly, no one’s in midseason form. One thing we try to do with Aroldis because he comes in with more ballyhoo than our other pitchers – kids that we really like – because he’s from Cuba and comes in with nice signing bonus, we don’t want him to do too much. Spring training is a process. We don’t need to see him throw his best stuff.”

    Ramon Hernandez, who caught Chapman, was impressed.

    “He throws hard,” Hernandez said. “His command is pretty good. They told he might be a little wild maybe. I was surprised what I saw. He’s got a lot to learn. But he’s got a good change-up, good slider. He needs a little experience. I’m sure the coaches will teach him well. You’re going to see him for a long time if he stays healthy.”

    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/201...art-in-majors/

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    It's encouraging to read the comments. The main reason why I would support Chapman starting with Cincinnati is that he could get acclimated to the city and life in the majors from the beginning rather than minor league life and then being promoted mid season.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    The Reds would be nuts to bring him up before the middle of May. Unless I misunderstand his contract, he's starting in Louisville or Carolina.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    The Reds would be absolutely nuts to start him in Cincinnati given how long they could control him for and what they would pay for his services.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Good to see Razor Ramon actually likes what he sees, a bit different from our last big name Latin pitcher's first day throwing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Valentin View Post
    He needs to work on his offspeed stuff. It was his first day, maybe he was trying to impress. But he's a got a good arm. His fastball moves. He's a good real live arm. That's what you need. Put him in the bullpen or whatever.
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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    It's not happening. Look at his contract. Period.
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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    With his contract it really seems like they are just saying all the right things.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    It's not happening. Look at his contract. Period.
    A lot is being made of the contract. Basically all the contract says is if he's eligible for arbitration then it will cost the Reds an extra $5mill plus whatever Chapman gets in arbitration or in negotiations with the Reds. If he is a power LH starter in 2013 the Reds will gladly cough up the $5mill and take their chances in arbitration.

    As with any young player they'll be watching his arbitration clock. They'd only have to send him out for a few months over the next three years in order to screw up his arbitration status.

    I'd be shocked if he was on the 25 man roster on Opening Day but that's because I don't think he's ready for the majors; not because of his contract.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    A lot is being made of the contract. Basically all the contract says is if he's eligible for arbitration then it will cost the Reds an extra $5mill plus whatever Chapman gets in arbitration or in negotiations with the Reds. If he is a power LH starter in 2013 the Reds will gladly cough up the $5mill and take their chances in arbitration.
    I still think you are misreading the contract as stated by Passan. But if you are right, here is what you are going with:
    So lets say that Chapman becomes quite good.... what its really saying is for 6 years the Reds can pay him 30.25M or about 60 (25.5 for the first 3, then probably 35 over the next 3 for arbitration because he is very good). That is a HUGE difference over basically 6 weeks.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    What is Fay talking about? Nowhere in those quotes are there any "hints" that Chapman might begin the year with the Reds. Let's say you didn't know anything about Aroldis Chapman and you just read the above quotes. You would conclude that they were talking about a young pitcher who would likely begin the year in the minor leagues but has an outside shot at making the Big League club. Or maybe I need to brush up on my English.

    Fay is light years past awful.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still think you are misreading the contract as stated by Passan. But if you are right, here is what you are going with:
    So lets say that Chapman becomes quite good.... what its really saying is for 6 years the Reds can pay him 30.25M or about 60 (25.5 for the first 3, then probably 35 over the next 3 for arbitration because he is very good). That is a HUGE difference over basically 6 weeks.
    Your example assumes he's Tim Lincecum. Not many folks get $35mill in years 4-6. But if he is Tim Lincecum then yes, I agree with your assessment but as a Reds fan I'm thrilled.

    I doubt the Reds think there's much chance he'll turn into Tim Lincecum over night. They know he's got a ways to go.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    What is Fay talking about? Nowhere in those quotes are there any "hints" that Chapman might begin the year with the Reds. Let's say you didn't know anything about Aroldis Chapman and you just read the above quotes. You would conclude that they were talking about a young pitcher who would likely begin the year in the minor leagues but has an outside shot at making the Big League club. Or maybe I need to brush up on my English.

    Fay is light years past awful.

    I agree. It's hype to say that Chapman may start in the majors. It'd be more accurate to say that Price didn't rule out Chapman starting in the majors.

    I learned nothing new by reading that article

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Chapman impresses in first day
    By C. Trent Rosecrans, CNATI.com Posted February 18, 2010 6:29 PM ET

    GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- Reds catcher Ramon Hernandez estimated Aroldis Chapman was throwing "about 96, 97 mph" in his first bullpen session on Thursday.

    When told that, Chapman laughed and said he didn't know how hard he threw today, but he never throws 100 percent in a bullpen, but he felt good on Thursday as Reds pitcher and catchers reported and went through their first workout at the new spring training complex.

    "I wasn't throwing 100 percent, I was working on some of the things I've been working on to get better, but my bullpen sessions have never been 100 percent," Chapman said through interpreter Tony Fossas, the pitching coach for Class A Dayton.

    After Fossas, who was born in Cuba and lived there until he was 10, finished interpreting Chapman's answer added, "it looked like" Chapman was throwing 100 percent.

    "I don't know what I threw, but I didn't feel like I was going full-out yet," Chapman said.

    Chapman threw about 35 pitches in the 10-minute bullpen session after the team stretched, throwing alongside four other pitchers, none of whom were on last year's team. Veteran Jon Adkins said he knew his No. 81 got in some camera shots.

    "I said to the other guys, 'boys, we're going to get some pub today, we're in Chapman's group,'" Adkins said.

    Reds manager Dusty Baker and pitching coach Bryan PriceMost of the front office watched as Chapman threw his bullpen session, including manager Dusty Baker, pitching coach Bryan Price and general manager Walt Jocketty.

    "I was very impressed with his command," Jocketty said after Chapman's bullpen session. "He was consistent around the strike zone."

    Hernandez had also heard that Chapman had control issues, but said he didn't really see much of that on Thursday.

    "He throws hard, he threw pretty good," Hernandez said. "I'd heard he was a little wild, but I was impressed with what I saw. He's got a lot to learn, but he's got great velocity, a good changeup and slider, so what he needs is a little experience. I'm sure the coaches will work with him and when he gets his chance you'll see him for a long time if he stays healthy.

    Despite that, Hernandez said he'd take the veteran exemption when Chapman throws his first round of live batting practice on Wendesday.

    Price said Chapman would throw every other day, with bullpens on Saturday and Monday, before throwing live batting practice on Wednesday, the day after position players report.

    "We're going to let him go out and compete. We've all seen the WBC games and we're really looking forward to seeing him pitch in regular games and compete and see what he does," Price said. "There's nothing like watching guys with your own eyes and making assessments on where he fits best. There's no question that the most important thing is that we do what's right for him in the long run. He can start anywhere, but we want to assess him and wherever he starts it's in the right place, maybe it's in Cincinnati, maybe it's someplace else in our system. We're going to turn him loose, let him compete and see what he's all about."

    Although Price and Baker said they want to see Chapman pitch as much as possible before they determine where he starts the season, Chapman is hoping to make his professional debut in Cincinnati.

    "That decision only comes from the top, but I think I'm very capable and prepared and I've worked hard for this opportunity," Chapman said. "I'm looking forward to the challenge, but I feel I'm more than capable of being a starter in the big leagues for Cincinnati."

    http://cnati.com/spring-training-201...st-day-001289/

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still think you are misreading the contract as stated by Passan. But if you are right, here is what you are going with:
    So lets say that Chapman becomes quite good.... what its really saying is for 6 years the Reds can pay him 30.25M or about 60 (25.5 for the first 3, then probably 35 over the next 3 for arbitration because he is very good). That is a HUGE difference over basically 6 weeks.
    Doug, the only way the Reds only pay Chapman $30.25 million is if he doesn't become become arbitration eligible before 2014. If he is arb. eligible after 2012, then he gets $5 million and goes into arbitration. If he is arb. eligible after 2013, he gets $3 million and goes into arbitration. This has been reported in multiple sources. Either Passan is mistaken or you are misinterpreting him.

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    Re: Price hints Chapman could start in majors

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler View Post
    Doug, the only way the Reds only pay Chapman $30.25 million is if he doesn't become become arbitration eligible before 2014. If he is arb. eligible after 2012, then he gets $5 million and goes into arbitration. If he is arb. eligible after 2013, he gets $3 million and goes into arbitration. This has been reported in multiple sources. Either Passan is mistaken or you are misinterpreting him.
    I actually found this from AOL Fanhouse:
    But what we learned Tuesday is that the contract voids if Chapman becomes arbitration eligible in 2013, the rest of his deal converts into a $5 million bonus and he goes into the arbitration pool. If he becomes arbitration eligible in 2014, he gets a $3 million bonus and goes into the arbitration pool. That means that if Chapman is as advertised and makes the Reds out of camp (or early this season), he makes his $15 million bonus, $4 million in base salary over his first three seasons, a $5 million bonus for becoming arbitration eligible early, plus whatever he earns over the next three seasons in arbitration.

    Considering the arbitration clause and the fact that the option is a player option, the Reds will be paying at least $30 million and at most somewhere in the ballpark of $45 or 50 million for a player that no one really knows much about. If Chapman turns into the next Randy Johnson, it'll be a bargain.
    So either way we want to slice it, it would be downright dumb for the Reds to bring him up before June rolls around, right? If this is right, say he comes up in April with the Reds. He gets his $1.5M bonus each year from 2010 until 2020, plus about $4M in salary over his first three seasons while becoming arbitration eligible in all likelihood in 2013, voiding his current deal and making it 24M over those first 3 years + whatever he gets in arbitration for the next three ($15M bonus+4M for the 3 seasons salary+5M bonus for becoming arb eligible). Even if he is an average to slightly above average pitcher over 3 years of arbitration he probably gets something like 5, 7 and 9M for those seasons for a grand total of 6 years and $45M. If he turns out to be as good as we hope (and the Reds I am sure), then we are probably looking at something like 6-9-12 for a total deal of 6 years and 52M.

    Or if the Reds keep him down until June 1st he avoids becoming arb eligible in 2013 and the Reds get him for a total of $30.25M over 6 years. Either way, only the rich or absolutely dumb teams would bring him up before then.

    Or am I completely missing something in here?


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