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Thread: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Arms: Head and shoulders better
    Reds insider: How crucial is good stuff? Just look at the 2005 staff

    February 27, 2010

    GOODYEAR, Ariz. - The Reds ended the 2005 season with the worst pitching in the National League.

    The club was last in the NL in ERA, runs allowed, complete games, shutouts and saves.

    Of the 19 pitchers who ended the season on the roster, 15 are out of baseball.

    The starting rotation was Aaron Harang, Brandon Claussen, Eric Milton, Ramon Ortiz and Randy Keisler. Allan Simpson, Chris Booker and Jason Standridge were in the bullpen.

    Five years later, pitching, and pitching depth in particular, are no longer a weakness. It's quite the contrary in fact.

    "That's what going to be key for us," general manager Walt Jocketty said. "That's a strength we have that some other teams don't have."

    The Reds saw signs of the improvement last year. The team ERA was 4.18 - the lowest since it was 3.98 in 1999.

    And compared to 2005? The Reds finished last year seventh in the NL in ERA, eighth in runs allowed, fourth in complete games, second in shutouts and eighth in saves.

    The Reds did that with a staff dotted with young arms.

    Reds manager Dusty Baker has noticed the increase in live, young arms since he took over three years ago.

    "Big time," Baker said. "They've had a good draft and good development of those drafts. That's where you learn you're trade and serve your apprenticeship in the minor leagues."

    But the transformation goes back further than Baker's three years. And four general managers share in the credit of turning it around after years of patching things together under GM Jim Bowden.

    Dan O'Brien had very good drafts in his two years at the helm and re-opened Latin America to the organization. Homer Bailey was drafted on his watch. Johnny Cueto was signed under O'Brien. O'Brien also drafted Travis Wood and Jordan Smith, two young pitchers who probably will make it to the big leagues.

    Wayne Krivsky, who followed O'Brien, traded for Bronson Arroyo and Edinson Volquez and signed Francisco Cordero. Arroyo stabilized the rotation. Cordero stabilized the bullpen, and Volquez was the club's best pitcher before being derailed by elbow surgery. Krivsky also brought in Daniel Ray Herrera through a trade and got Jared Burton in the Rule 5 draft.

    Brad Kullman, who served briefly as interim GM between Jim Bowden and O'Brien, made the trade for Aaron Harang.

    Jocketty, the current GM, has continued to build. He added Nick Masset through trade and signed Arthur Rhodes.

    His biggest move was to sign Aroldis Chapman, a 21-year-old Cuban left-hander.

    Chapman has wowed people during camp.

    The Reds have made a conscious effort to stock arms.

    Pitchers like Mike Leake, the Reds' top draft choice last year, and Wood, last year's minor league pitcher of the year, will probably start the year in the minors but they're close to being big-league ready.

    "We've got several guys," Jocketty said. "Leake, (Matt) Maloney, (Justin) Lehr, Wood on the verge of being able to pitch up here.

    "We've got a lot of quality arms in the system."

    You couldn't really say that in 2005.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...oulders+better

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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    They also ended 2005 with one of the best offenses in baseball, leading the NL with more than 5 runs per game. In other words, the team hasn't improved at all since then, they've just changed what they are terrible at.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    They also ended 2005 with one of the best offenses in baseball, leading the NL with more than 5 runs per game. In other words, the team hasn't improved at all since then, they've just changed what they are terrible at.
    The offense won't be terrible in 2010.

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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Arms: Head and shoulders better
    Reds insider: How crucial is good stuff? Just look at the 2005 staff

    February 27, 2010

    GOODYEAR, Ariz. - The Reds ended the 2005 season with the worst pitching in the National League.

    The club was last in the NL in ERA, runs allowed, complete games, shutouts and saves.

    Of the 19 pitchers who ended the season on the roster, 15 are out of baseball.

    The starting rotation was Aaron Harang, Brandon Claussen, Eric Milton, Ramon Ortiz and Randy Keisler. Allan Simpson, Chris Booker and Jason Standridge were in the bullpen.

    Five years later, pitching, and pitching depth in particular, are no longer a weakness. It's quite the contrary in fact.

    "That's what going to be key for us," general manager Walt Jocketty said. "That's a strength we have that some other teams don't have."

    The Reds saw signs of the improvement last year. The team ERA was 4.18 - the lowest since it was 3.98 in 1999.

    And compared to 2005? The Reds finished last year seventh in the NL in ERA, eighth in runs allowed, fourth in complete games, second in shutouts and eighth in saves.

    The Reds did that with a staff dotted with young arms.

    Reds manager Dusty Baker has noticed the increase in live, young arms since he took over three years ago.

    "Big time," Baker said. "They've had a good draft and good development of those drafts. That's where you learn you're trade and serve your apprenticeship in the minor leagues."

    But the transformation goes back further than Baker's three years. And four general managers share in the credit of turning it around after years of patching things together under GM Jim Bowden.

    Dan O'Brien had very good drafts in his two years at the helm and re-opened Latin America to the organization. Homer Bailey was drafted on his watch. Johnny Cueto was signed under O'Brien. O'Brien also drafted Travis Wood and Jordan Smith, two young pitchers who probably will make it to the big leagues.

    Wayne Krivsky, who followed O'Brien, traded for Bronson Arroyo and Edinson Volquez and signed Francisco Cordero. Arroyo stabilized the rotation. Cordero stabilized the bullpen, and Volquez was the club's best pitcher before being derailed by elbow surgery. Krivsky also brought in Daniel Ray Herrera through a trade and got Jared Burton in the Rule 5 draft.

    Brad Kullman, who served briefly as interim GM between Jim Bowden and O'Brien, made the trade for Aaron Harang.

    Jocketty, the current GM, has continued to build. He added Nick Masset through trade and signed Arthur Rhodes.

    His biggest move was to sign Aroldis Chapman, a 21-year-old Cuban left-hander.

    Chapman has wowed people during camp.

    The Reds have made a conscious effort to stock arms.

    Pitchers like Mike Leake, the Reds' top draft choice last year, and Wood, last year's minor league pitcher of the year, will probably start the year in the minors but they're close to being big-league ready.

    "We've got several guys," Jocketty said. "Leake, (Matt) Maloney, (Justin) Lehr, Wood on the verge of being able to pitch up here.

    "We've got a lot of quality arms in the system."

    You couldn't really say that in 2005.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...oulders+better
    Now there is a report that gives some fair treatment and some credit to previous GM's for what Mr. Jocketty indicates ""That's what going to be key for us," general manager Walt Jocketty said.

    Even Baker: "Reds manager Dusty Baker has noticed the increase in live, young arms since he took over three years ago."

    "Big time," Baker said. "They've had a good draft and good development of those drafts."
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 02-28-2010 at 11:04 PM.

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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The offense won't be terrible in 2010.
    I really hope and want to believe that Walt Jocketty and Dusty Baker are right about the pitching as they see it. I want to think that the pitching can be a big part of success in 2010 and in the future.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The offense won't be terrible in 2010.
    How about "less terrible?"

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Mo Sanford, Ty Howington, Chris Gruler, Ryan Snare, Justin Gilman, Thom Pauly and Bobby Basham all give this thread a

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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    How about "less terrible?"

    Awe got to love that projected lineup and the brilliance behind it don't you, I mean even though those kind of things don't matter. :all_cohol

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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    I am really shocked at the lack of response from certain posters who have in the past have vehemently opposed and doggedly criticized the past general managers, in light of the glowing response that the author, along with the current and well respected Reds general manager, Walt Jocketty, and Reds manager, Dusty Baker have brought out in this article regarding the very promising pitching. I think that their avoidance of and continued silence in response to this thread, and the Jocketty and Baker comments in particular speaks volumes of their past seemly endless remarks. The critics with their superfluous vitriol for the previous general managers, they seem to be no where to be found, how selectively convenient.

    Reds manager Dusty Baker has noticed the increase in live, young arms since he took over three years ago.

    "Big time," Baker said. "They've had a good draft and good development of those drafts. That's where you learn you're trade and serve your apprenticeship in the minor leagues."
    "That's what going to be key for us," general manager Walt Jocketty said. "That's a strength we have that some other teams don't have."
    "We've got several guys," Jocketty said. "Leake, (Matt) Maloney, (Justin) Lehr, Wood on the verge of being able to pitch up here.

    "We've got a lot of quality arms in the system."
    You couldn't really say that in 2005.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 03-03-2010 at 07:24 AM.

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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    They also ended 2005 with one of the best offenses in baseball, leading the NL with more than 5 runs per game. In other words, the team hasn't improved at all since then, they've just changed what they are terrible at.
    Teams that surprise and contend almost always (maybe always) do so with great young pitching. And it much easier to cobble together a passable offense that cobble together a pitching staff. And we have a passable offense already.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    I am really shocked at the lack of response from certain posters who have in the past have vehemently opposed and doggedly criticized the past general managers, in light of the glowing response that the author, along with the current and well respected Reds general manager, Walt Jocketty, and Reds manager, Dusty Baker have brought out in this article regarding the very promising pitching. I think that their avoidance of and continued silence in response to this thread, and the Jocketty and Baker comments in particular speaks volumes of their past seemly endless remarks. The critics with their superfluous vitriol for the previous general managers, they seem to be no where to be found, how selectively convenient.
    OK...I'll take the bait.

    Unsure what you are getting at here.

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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    from hitting to defense, to starting, relief, and bench and potential young players making an impact this is probably one of the better complete teams (at least on paper) I've seen as a Reds fan in a long time. NOt the best in the league, but best I"ve seen.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

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    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    according to CTrent's blog this morning, Dusty says Harangatang is going to go on opening day, followed by Cueto, then Arroyo, then Homer w/ the 5th spot to be determined. Dusty talked to Bronson about going on opening day, but Bronson said he'd rather start at night than during the day and would pass on that honor. Dusty wanted to break up Aaron and Bronson since he believes both will eat up innings and give the bull pen some rest more so than Cueto and Baily.

    Hope he's correct on that last part, in that Harangatang is back healthy and looking more like a staff Ace than he has post San Diego extra inning work. I would have liked to see the opening day starter determined a little later after some spring training competition, but if you know Harang is going to be on your roster and in your starting rotation pretty much no matter what outside of injury, guess there's no harm giving him the OD nod again as he's used to the celebration/crowd of O.D. and in the end, opening day is no bigger than any other single day other than more fans show up that day than most other days.

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    Re: Arms: Head and shoulders better (article from Fay)

    Good call by Dusty on breaking up the rubber arms...
    2010 Mock Draft Selections (picking for Rays)

    Bryce Brentz
    Brandon Workman
    Kris Bryant
    Matt Lipka
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