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Thread: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

  1. #151
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Well, Alonso is currently considered a better prospect than when Votto was at the same stage. If I remember correctly, in the 2007, before he was called up in Sept. and went on a rampage, many had doubts that he'd be even an average MLB 1B.


    Your memory is correct. There was even talk that Votto was trade bait, that he was viewed as a AAAA prospect. All this has proven woefully wrong. Votto is just a top notch young hitter.

    In comparing the two, it will be a challenge for Alonso to exceed Votto's performance, at least his performance so far.

    Votto hits both lefties and righties. In the minors, there was talk he couldn't hit lefties, which has proven incorrect.
    Will Alonso hit both lefties and righties?

    The other question is power. Alonso could exceed Votto if he shows great power, like a classic stud first baseman. But so far, he hasn't. It's early, though.

    When the Reds drafted Alonso, the jury was still out on Votto. But now, with Votto showing all-star caliber play, one has to wonder whether Yonder will end up at a different position or on a different club.

    While the odds may be against it, I'm hopeful that Alonso proves to be an adequate left fielder. Or that some other team loves him and will trade a top young shortstop or pitcher for him.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-02-2010 at 09:44 AM.

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  3. #152
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    No, of course not. I'd try to get this done when Alonso has shown he's the key to putting three tremendous left-handed hitters in the lineup at one time--Votto, Bruce, Alonso. I think that will be sooner rather than later but it's certainly not now. If Alonso's really healthy, it may be as soon as this July or August. But all the discussion's premature as far as I'm concerned. I'm trusting Votto to see that what's best for the team will, at some point, include his moving to LF--unless that is, Alonso can play it adequately. But one thing I do insist on: if this team is to win a World Series (which is all that really matters), it's best chance will come with Votto, Bruce, and Alonso in the lineup at the same time. Mth123 has well argued this team's weakness against right-handers; I say that's the cure--Votto, Bruce, and Alonso.
    You may be right. But for now the thing to do is see if Alonso can fit in LF (or at 3B), not Votto. They've got Francisco doing the same thing. Something will work out, it's just too soon to get a good read on what.
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  4. #153
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If I were the Reds I'd be scouting the Yankees system very closely in 2010. They've got a slew of highly rated catching prospects -- Jesus Montero (who likely doesn't end up a catcher, but it's not decided yet) JR Murphy, Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez -- and that's currently a weakness in the Reds system. Maybe Alonso is a nice fit as a young DH for the Yanks, where he can pal around some more with that 3B....
    You may be right, but I don't see the Yankees installing an unproven rookie as their DH. Usually DH's are players who have proven themselves as good hitters but are a liability in the field.

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    You may be right, but I don't see the Yankees installing an unproven rookie as their DH. Usually DH's are players who have proven themselves as good hitters but are a liability in the field.
    Yes, far more likely they'd go with a vet. Since trades are so rarely top prospect for top prospect, you'd have to think that Alonso would be packaged with a veteran like Harang, Arroyo or Phillips (the 3 most likely Reds to get shipped, IMO).
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    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Rob Neyer's take this morning on Alonso & Votto

    Reds' Alonso no match for Votto
    Rob Neyer Mar 2, 2010 4:47 AM - Show original item

    Ah, spring. When every talented prospect with a few weeks of Double-A experience is knocking on the door of the majors. And I'm afraid I'm assigned the unfortunate duty of knocking these tyros down a notch or two, until the Almighty (read: me) decides they're actually ready to play at the game's absolute highest level (or maybe the National League). Case in point:

    Reds first-base prospect Yonder Alonso's supersized hitting ability should pave his express trip to the Major Leagues. It might have by now if there wasn't one very sturdy obstacle blocking the 22-year-old's path.

    It's only the best hitter on the team and a fellow first baseman in Joey Votto.

    This was a dilemma seen coming from the very moment Alonso was selected seventh overall in the 2008 First-Year Player Draft and signed to a five-year, $4.55 million Major League contract. At the time, Votto was still a rookie but a successful one, but Cincinnati has a Draft policy of taking the best available player and not selecting according to need.

    Alonso reached Triple-A last season and his Major League promotion is only a matter of time -- if he can find a place to play. To that end, the Reds have worked him out this spring at third base and both corner-outfield spots. It's dispelled the common speculation that when Alonso was eventually called up, it would be Votto whom would be moved to left field.

    "It will take some time to figure it out," Cincinnati general manager Walt Jocketty said. "That's why we want to see [Alonso] at different positions. He's got a great bat and Joey is going to be at first base for a long time. I don't see moving Joey."

    Drafting the best player is a perfectly reasonable policy. As near as I can figure, the only flaw is that if you wind up having to trade the kid -- say, because his only position is played by someone better -- you might get slightly less than full value because your prospective trading partners know you have to trade him. That's a small (and perhaps nonexistent) thing, though.

    For the moment, let's dispense with the notion that Alonso is ready for the majors. He's played only 29 games above Class A, and wasn't outstanding in those 29 games. As John Sickels points out in his new book (which you should buy), as a professional Alonso's got a .211/.326/.296 line against left-handed pitchers ... and was little better while starring for Miami.

    There's also little reason to think he would last long in left field, or at third base. Almost 23, Alonso is a big fellow and will only get bigger and slower. He's just not someone the Reds can play right now, and probably won't be at any point this year.

    Alonso's future? Well, that's up to the front office. If the Reds are willing to entertain the notion of trading Votto a year or so from now, they should groom Alonso as their First Baseman of the Future (which would include getting him a ton of at-bats against Triple-A pitchers, along with extra BP against left-handers with good breaking balls). If they're not willing to trade Votto, then Alonso should be placed wherever he's most likely to succeed, with the aim of driving his trade value as high as possible.

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    "I don't see moving Joey" doesn't preclude Joey's volunteering to move once it becomes apparent that move is in the best interest of the team.

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    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    "I don't see moving Joey" doesn't preclude Joey's volunteering to move once it becomes apparent that move is in the best interest of the team.
    Or "if it".

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    "I don't see moving Joey" doesn't preclude Joey's volunteering to move once it becomes apparent that move is in the best interest of the team.
    The best interest of the team according to who?

    As far as I'm concerned, keeping Votto at first base and shipping Alonso out for catching help or SS help once his trade value reaches maximum is in the best interests of the team.
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The best interest of the team according to who?

    As far as I'm concerned, keeping Votto at first base and shipping Alonso out for catching help or SS help once his trade value reaches maximum is in the best interests of the team.
    Very true and/or pitching. I still think Tampa Bay might have some interest in an Alonso for Wade Davis deal. They also have Brignac at SS and Desmond Jennings in the OF who although they may prefer to keep over an Upton or Crawford due to dollars that is also a deal that would make some sense for both teams as Jennings is that rare guy who can bat lead off. The Rays only have Carlos Pena for the rest of this season and then he is a FA. I can see where they would rather trade Jennings for a 1B and keep Crawford (who will also be a FA) over Pena. This is a team whom I think makes sense to contact for Alonso, also keeping in mind he should help attendance a bit with having starred in Miami.
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If I were the Reds I'd be scouting the Yankees system very closely in 2010. They've got a slew of highly rated catching prospects -- Jesus Montero (who likely doesn't end up a catcher, but it's not decided yet) JR Murphy, Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez -- and that's currently a weakness in the Reds system. Maybe Alonso is a nice fit as a young DH for the Yanks, where he can pal around some more with that 3B....
    The Yankees have the best hitting prospect in baseball who can't catch and his only option is first base in Jesus Montero. That means Montero is going to DH and the Yankees are going to hope Romine works out behind the plate (I am a believer). They will have no interest in Alonso as both the DH and 1B spots are filled for them through 2016.

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    The Yankees have the best hitting prospect in baseball who can't catch and his only option is first base in Jesus Montero. That means Montero is going to DH and the Yankees are going to hope Romine works out behind the plate (I am a believer). They will have no interest in Alonso as both the DH and 1B spots are filled for them through 2016.
    He's still catching. And you know they'd trade him in the right deal. You're right that Montero looks more like a DH than anything right now, but that doesn't mean he's a lock to be in NY. And if he goes, there's no significant prospect bat in that system.

    Whether Alonso fits into the equation or not, without a top-flight catching prospect in the system the Reds should be scouting the Yanks -- they seem to have the most glaring surplus of those players.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    He's still catching. And you know they'd trade him in the right deal. You're right that Montero looks more like a DH than anything right now, but that doesn't mean he's a lock to be in NY. And if he goes, there's no significant prospect bat in that system.

    Whether Alonso fits into the equation or not, without a top-flight catching prospect in the system the Reds should be scouting the Yanks -- they seem to have the most glaring surplus of those players.
    He is still catching, but he isn't viewed as a guy who will stick at catcher by anyone I have ever talked to or read. Alonso simply isn't a fit for the Yankees. Trade them Frazier or Heisey and you might be able to swap out Romine, but Montero is going nowhere and they would have zero interest in Alonso.

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Well, Alonso is currently considered a better prospect than when Votto was at the same stage. If I remember correctly, in the 2007, before he was called up in Sept. and went on a rampage, many had doubts that he'd be even an average MLB 1B.
    The only people I recall thinking Votto was going to be bad were Scott Hatteberg fans.

    It's silly for the Reds to even worry about moving Alonso now to a different spot, let him prove it's a problem first.
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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    The only people I recall thinking Votto was going to be bad were Scott Hatteberg fans.

    It's silly for the Reds to even worry about moving Alonso now to a different spot, let him prove it's a problem first.
    I don't think people thought he was going to be bad, but the Reds themselves brought back Hatteberg to split time with Votto in 2008. Votto just kept clobbering the ball though.

    The main issue with not worrying now is that it postpones help later if he does prove it. Wouldn't you rather be prepared somewhat if Alonso does indeed beat the door down by July rather than then be unprepared in July if Alonso is just ripping AAA apart and postponing him helping until 2011 because you couldn't get Votto 20-30 innings in left field during spring training or have him take fly balls in the outfield once a week during the season pre game? If you don't ever have to make the move, fine. But if you do, its much smarter to have prepared for it in advance when there was an idea out there that you knew of that it could be a possibility and somewhat soon.

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    Re: Alonso trying 3B, OF. Jocketty: "I don't see us moving Joey"

    Jocketty has now stated that Votto is not going to be moved. Some folks need to finally give it up and realize that he is not going to left field. Move on and hope that Alonso either works out at 3rd, Left, or is traded for a stud catcher, shortstop, or another great hitter than can play the outfield.
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