Uh...cause people read more into Jockety's quote than was actually there? Cause people have used Jockety's quote to say that that is the end of the debate? Cause some people believe that Jockety can't change his mind 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc. from now? Cause both players are super talented and people are taking one player or another instead of appreciating both players? I think those could be a few reasons...Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red
It's probably the same thing as no one asking Dunn to move to 1B ... or Junior to move out of CF ...
Honestly, I don't care if Alonso OPS's 1.200 this year at AAA. He doesn't have that many AB's in minor leagues. Give him the WHOLE year to make his case against some semi-advanced pitching who have adjusted after seeing him 2-3 times over the course of a season. Then we can have this discussion in October/November. And who knows, if Joey needs to go on the extended DL, Alonso may get a few major league AB's.
I doubt Votto needs more than three or four games to shake off any cobwebs in LF, and he can do that in July if Alonso suddenly rediscovers his HR stroke. Right now, Alonso hasn't proved that he's anything more than a Sean Casey - Part 2.
“I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane
“We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn
Because the discussion went into Votto shouldn't move at all and Votto should be asked to move if it makes the team better.
And because the only person the Reds have to play LF is Votto apparently
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Could it just be the desire to keep 2 great players on the same team? May take some flexibility?
Because baseball isn't a vacuum with only Votto and Alonso. Frazier might just be every bit the hitter Alonso is. Heisey less so, but with defense far better in the OF that either Votto or Alonso can provide.
Sometimes flexibility is willing to part with a prospect, no matter how good you think he will be. The Red Sox traded Hanley Ramirez. I bet they make that trade 10 times out of 10 too.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Agree 100%, as I think my posts have made clear. This is also, by the way, a reason not to trade Alonso, as it will allow us to keep--perhaps and obviously assuming, as I do, that Alonso becomes a terrific player--2 great players for longer--i.e. 2 of the 3 we will have, Votto, Bruce, Alonso. I do not believe this organization will be able to keep both Bruce and Votto when they reach free agency. Keeping Alonso means we will have at least two of these three (assuming we can sign one of Bruce and Votto) through the whole period of Chapman's contract, for instance. Walt's said he's trying to build perennial strength not just strength for a year or two. IMO, keeping Alonso and Votto best suits that plan. It's not irrelevant that Alonso's under control of the org. for several years longer than Votto.
Who's the second great player?
And yet, trading Alonso is not the only option. It is obviously the only option you are willing to acknowledge, and it is an option, but it's not the only option. Alonso still has to prove he can do it, but his ceiling and floor are both higher than Frazier's are.
Opinion, not fact, as Frazier is the higher rated prospect on more than a few lists. I'd say offensively, Alonso MAY have a bit more upside, defensively, its Frazier, hands down.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
oh ye of little faith...: Just watch Votto this year and you will see a great player I am sure...kidding
I admit Alonso needs to prove he can do it, but make sure you aren't discounting Alonso just because of your admiration of Votto. Alonso is a tremendous prospect and decisions will have to be made in the next year I would imagine. It's a nice problem to have; y'all make it seem like it is terrible and somehow insulting to Votto; it's great for the Reds!
Frazier is better defensively, Janish is better defensively than Frazier...who cares? Alonso will be a much better hitter than Frazier and he plays 1B which won't require better defense, right?
I don't think it's that simple. As a matter of fact I personally don't have a problem with the team asking him (not that my opinion matters to them) to do that and I understand the rationale behind it. But I just don't think it's fair to expect him to just go ahead and jump to doing it. Or hold it against him for not wanting to. I should add it would be different IMO if he wasn't handling his current position well.
Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 03-03-2010 at 05:52 PM.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
And Votto is better than Alonso defensively and offensively. at 1B.
You don't move the better player to a position he is weaker at in favor of a lesser hitter. Its certainly no lock that Alonso is better than Frazier offensively as Frazier has been better than Alonso at every level.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Right now, I agree that Votto is better. As a matter of fact, I agree that righat now you do nothing (other than experiment with Alonso at other positions). But, you do move Votto if it makes the team better. If you can't even fathom such a thing, then it is time to move on cause this is just turning into g-nip, g-nop if you remember that game...
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