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Thread: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

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    The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Because the REDS are going to have to medically study his arm over a period of months while he has a series of starts in regular season games.

    They can't do this at the Major Leauge level as his playing time would hinge on situation and Dusty Baker, along with the fact that they'd find it hard to control what he throws.

    The REDS have very little information on Chapman's "exact" past as far as innings pitched, what he threw in those starts, etc., etc..

    The REDS are going to have to have him throw in the minors under "controlled conditions"; and, then they'll peform ongoing medical tests to see how his arm reacts.

    Only after they have this information can they come up with a "plan for his future that includes letting him loose in the Majors".

    Any plan other than this is not prudent, and they didn't invest all of that money so that he can throw one season and then have an injury.

    While he's in the minors, they are also going to tweek his mechanics so that his arm lasts through the life of the contract, and so he can get to 210-220 innings on a regular basis without fear of harm to the arm.

    The REDS are going to be very, very careful with this "child".

    It's practically like adopting a kid from Africa. You're going to spend the first year doing all types of adjustments both medically and physically to the child.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 03-09-2010 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Because the REDS are going to have to medically study his arm over a period of months while he has a series of starts in regular season games.

    They can't do this at the Major Leauge level as his playing time would hinge on situation and Dusty Baker, along with the fact that they'd find it hard to control what he throws.

    The REDS have very little information on Chapman's "exact" past as far as innings pitched, what he threw in those starts, etc., etc..

    The REDS are going to have to have him throw in the minors under "controlled conditions"; and, then they'll peform ongoing medical tests to see how his arm reacts.

    Only after they have this information can they come up with a "plan for his future that includes letting him loose in the Majors".

    Any plan other than this is not prudent, and they didn't invest all of that money so that he can throw one season and then have an injury.

    While he's in the minors, they are also going to tweek his mechanics so that his arm lasts through the life of the contract, and so he can get to 210-220 innings on a regular basis without fear of harm to the arm.

    The REDS are going to be very, very careful with this "child".

    It's practically like adopting a kid from Africa. You're going to spend the first year doing all types of adjustments both medically and physically to the child.
    "Tweaking" his mechanics just gives me chills. If he has thrown this way his whole life just leave him be, tweaking the mechanics will probably do more damage than prevent damage. To me his mechanics look pretty fluid and solid, very effortless arm motion.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    "Tweaking" his mechanics just gives me chills. If he has thrown this way his whole life just leave him be, tweaking the mechanics will probably do more damage than prevent damage. To me his mechanics look pretty fluid and solid, very effortless arm motion.
    These are experts. They are going to tweek him for the better.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    These are experts. They are going to tweek him for the better.
    Half of the people who may "tweak" him probably don't have a clue about the science of the arm and the muscles, I am sure they have never studied anything about Kinesiology and how certain pitches pressure and strain certain parts of the arm/body during delivery. Most of these guys are coaches who played the game and that is what got them into the role they are in. A majority of pitching coaches are great about pitching strategy, pitch types, drills, and routines, but most all of them don't really know much about what causes injuries. Their aspects of proper arm motion and deliveries is usually old school, such as throwing sidearm hurts your elbow, those who said guys like Mark Prior had good mechanics, etc.

    When you are talking about a 30 million dollar investment on a lefty that hits 100 with a fluid looking delivery, I don't want any of our so called "experts" tweaking anything to do with his arm. If it is rubber position, pitching strategy, etc than I am fine with that, but if they are tweaking to prevent injury it will backfire.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Half of the people who may "tweak" him probably don't have a clue about the science of the arm and the muscles, I am sure they have never studied anything about Kinesiology and how certain pitches pressure and strain certain parts of the arm/body during delivery. Most of these guys are coaches who played the game and that is what got them into the role they are in. A majority of pitching coaches are great about pitching strategy, pitch types, drills, and routines, but most all of them don't really know much about what causes injuries. Their aspects of proper arm motion and deliveries is usually old school, such as throwing sidearm hurts your elbow, those who said guys like Mark Prior had good mechanics, etc.

    When you are talking about a 30 million dollar investment on a lefty that hits 100 with a fluid looking delivery, I don't want any of our so called "experts" tweaking anything to do with his arm. If it is rubber position, pitching strategy, etc than I am fine with that, but if they are tweaking to prevent injury it will backfire.
    The Minor League Coaches won't be making the decisions. They will take their order from higher up on how many innnings/pitches and what pitches are thrown by Chapman. He'll be treated like a racehorse.

    You buy a new Racehorse from South America and no matter how great he was down there, you don't just pay the Kentucky Derby entry fee and make that his first race. You put him in a series of warmups and watch how he reacts in those races first.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    The Minor League Coaches won't be making the decisions. They will take their order from higher up on how many innnings/pitches and what pitches are thrown by Chapman. He'll be treated like a racehorse.

    You buy a new Racehorse from South America and no matter how great he was down there, you don't just pay the Kentucky Derby entry fee and make that his first race. You put him in a series of warmups and watch how he reacts in those races first.
    I never mentioned anything about pitch counts, innings pitched, or where he begins the season. I thought the topic was about him being under a microscope so the staff could perform "medical tests" and so the staff could "tweak" his mechanics so his arm will last. Either way, I don't trust the major league coaches in this regard anymore than the minor league coaches, they all come from the same coaching pool, what separates the big league coaches from the minor league coaches is results and opportunity. Only a handful of coaches around the leagues probably really understand the physics of the arm/shoulder and how pitching relates to it.

    The REDS are going to have to have him throw in the minors under "controlled conditions"; and, then they'll peform ongoing medical tests to see how his arm reacts.
    While he's in the minors, they are also going to tweek his mechanics so that his arm lasts through the life of the contract, and so he can get to 210-220 innings on a regular basis without fear of harm to the arm.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    "Tweaking" his mechanics just gives me chills. If he has thrown this way his whole life just leave him be, tweaking the mechanics will probably do more damage than prevent damage. To me his mechanics look pretty fluid and solid, very effortless arm motion.
    Remember when the Marlins had a lights out young pitcher named Dontrelle Willis and they decided to "tweak" the mechanics of his delivery? How did that work out?

    The kid has been throwing this way his entire life. Medical tests were already done on his shoulder and it has been deemed "pristine". If he has thrown as many innings as rumored in Cuba, using the same mechanics that he does now, you would think he would already have some sort of damage to his arm.

    Bottom line...stop micro-managing the kid and just let him throw and see what happens.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by BruiserUD View Post
    Remember when the Marlins had a lights out young pitcher named Dontrelle Willis and they decided to "tweak" the mechanics of his delivery? How did that work out?

    The kid has been throwing this way his entire life. Medical tests were already done on his shoulder and it has been deemed "pristine". If he has thrown as many innings as rumored in Cuba, using the same mechanics that he does now, you would think he would already have some sort of damage to his arm.

    Bottom line...stop micro-managing the kid and just let him throw and see what happens.
    i have to agree with this, we dont want chapman to end up like willis. Let him go and throw the way he has always been throwing.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    And what factually based information are you basing this on exactly?

    They have his "info" from his time on the Cuban team.

    Dr. Kremcheck did an MRI on him, and said it was the most pristine he's ever seen, remarkably so.
    That, combined with his ridiculously effortless delivery, have me thinking this is one of the least concerns they have at this point.

    They are going to pitch him where all the evidence says he needs to pitch.
    If anything, they are probably more concerned with keeping him in the minors for a bit, just to avoid allowing him to get to a "Super 2" thereby activing some contract clauses that allow him to get more money out of his current contract.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    And what factually based information are you basing this on exactly?
    Common Sense

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Common Sense
    is this the same common sense that told you there was no way that Yonder would not start at 1st base on this team and have votto in LF?

    Kings, your in my fav 3 as far as posters on this site....but I think you are stretching things a bit far with this one....Chapman will start for the Reds if they think his arm belongs there....just as Yonder will not force Votto to LF.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    is this the same common sense that told you there was no way that Yonder would not start at 1st base on this team and have votto in LF?

    Kings, your in my fav 3 as far as posters on this site....but I think you are stretching things a bit far with this one....Chapman will start for the Reds if they think his arm belongs there....just as Yonder will not force Votto to LF.
    Haypay brought up an interesting point. He hasn't pitched in more than a year he says in his post. I didn't know that. That's an awful long time to be dormant.

    That post after yours (in BLEEDS) says that someone thinks that he'll come up at the end of May. That sounds about right....end of May, first week of June. I was never saying that he stays in the Minors. I was only saying that he'll start there so they can get a microscopic look at him under conditions that they control. Once he's in the Majors, he's pretty much under Dusty's control, and that's not a disparaging remark against Dusty in that statement, just that all pitchers are under the manager's control in the Majors to be used as they see fit. They are there to win games.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 03-11-2010 at 07:23 PM.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    King I just don't get why you are so mental when it comes to the the reds pitchers arms. If this kid hits his cieling for potential do you think he'll be here more than 6 years anyway? Pitching injuries have just as much to do with genetics as it does i.p. etc. If the Reds want to bring Chapman up north to start the season, great. If they don't feel he's ready yet and want him to spend some time in the minors great. You have to get over this, handling pitchers with kid gloves mentality.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    Not so sure about all the medical stuff. Looks like they could simply monitor him closely during ST. I'm just excited that he is pitching so well out of the gate.

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    Re: The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

    I think those are additional factors. Until yesterday, I don't think anyone expected him to make the team this Spring. After only 3 IP, I think we can still assume he will not make the team. I do not think he will pitch this well all Spring. If he does, I hope he makes the team.


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