The only reason you need to know why Chapman will start in the Minors...

[krm1580]

With everything that has gone on so far I am wondering if Chapman's agents/handlers knew he was better than the intial reports from the WBC and were all over the contract the Reds offered because they figured he would play right away and get to the big time contract sooner.

That being said, my opinion is the Reds should send him to the minors until 6/1 for any reason they can make up. The Reds 5th starter is only scheduled to make 5 starts between opening day and 6/1. If you are telling me by skipping 5 starts I can control the guy at decent money for 5 years vs 3 years its a no brainer.

I will say he is going a long way toward making the decision for the Reds really difficult. If I am Dusty and he has one more dominating start, I pull my catchers aside and say "hey I would not be pissed if you happened to tell the hitters what pitch is coming." Although the way he is throwing even that may not matter

[Kingspoint]

Okay. Okay.

This is sure different than when we used to discuss what kind of weird thing Bob Boone would do on any given day.

Or, when we were trying to project how many wins Lance Davis, Chris Reitsma, Jose Acevedo, Jim Brower and Osvaldo Fernandez would get.

[Kingspoint]

Who is "we"? Show me a quote from Bryan Price saying he didn't know Chapman had a sinker. Show me a quote from the catcher saying he didn't call for a sinker to be thrown for that pitch.



So what exactly is not "real conditions" in a major league game, where they cannot completely control all of the conditions.





Waffle much?!?



He made one small change, by himself, after seeing himself on film for the first time. This was discussed several times in the media, etc.
Hardly translates to him admitting that he has "several" mechanical problems. You are strawmanning this to death.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Baker said he never knew, and if he never knew the rest of the REDS' brass never knew. Baker gets a scouting report, at the very least on the guy and you better believe is told everything they know about their #1 prospect. C'mon, man. Be real.

And, I NEVER said the #1 reason Chapman's staying in the minors is because of his contract. I didn't even know about "his contract" when I started this thread. I always have and I posted the last thing to prove I was right that the #1 reason he'll be starting in the minors is because they want to protect his arm, which is different from what you say. YOU THINK the #1 reason is financial. I couldn't disagree more. They don't want to turn this guy into a Doc Gooden, where he's Superman for a couple of seasons and then he flames out after five or six seasons turning into an average pitcher and then is washed up by the time he's 26 years old. You get a guy this good, you want to get Greatness out of him for as many years as possible. Give yourself half a dozen years to have an "ACE" and a legitimate chance to win the World Series those years.

They handle him (his arm) right this year and they are legitimate World Series contenders from 2011 through 2016. And that means limiting him to 155 Innings maximum on the year. He stays in the minors until May 31st having his starts spaced out (6 days) and not having him go more than 90 pitches in any of them. Then when he comes up in June, limiting him to 100 pitches on every start and letting him be the 5th Starter so that he can pitch possibly into September, but shutting him down immediately when he reaches 155 innings, no matter how well he's pitching, even if he's shutting everybody out every week.

[lidspinner]

just thought I would throw due props towards Kings.....at this time I am starting to follow your lead and I see AC not making this team out of ST.....I am not saying ti will be Leake....but it wont be AC....and I will say that IMO, it has everything to do with the contract and nothing to do with performance.

[BLEEDS]

just thought I would throw due props towards Kings.....at this time I am starting to follow your lead and I see AC not making this team out of ST.....I am not saying ti will be Leake....but it wont be AC....and I will say that IMO, it has everything to do with the contract and nothing to do with performance.

Which is (allegedly) the exact opposite of what Kingspoint is saying. At least sometimes.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[BLEEDS]

Baker said he never knew, and if he never knew the rest of the REDS' brass never knew. Baker gets a scouting report, at the very least on the guy and you better believe is told everything they know about their #1 prospect. C'mon, man. Be real.

So you're basing your entire opinion on what Dusty Baker said.
Just checking.
He's not the most informed person in the world. He barely knows the names of half his players. I'm sure Price knew he had a sinker, and I bet the catcher did too - he probably gave him the sign to throw it.
The fact that Dusty Baker didn't know he had a sinker - until after he threw it - doesn't surprise me in one bit.

You then strawman that into "we (the Reds) don't know ANYTHING about Chapman's history".
Ridiculous.

And, I NEVER said the #1 reason Chapman's staying in the minors is because of his contract. I didn't even know about "his contract" when I started this thread. I always have and I posted the last thing to prove I was right that the #1 reason he'll be starting in the minors is because they want to protect his arm, which is different from what you say. YOU THINK the #1 reason is financial. I couldn't disagree more.

Okay, again, I'm going to quote - YOU! - these are YOUR Quotes:

FINANCES is EXACTLY (I can use caps, too.) what I'm talking about. It's the investment that they made in him why he WILL BE starting in the minors. My whole point has been about FINANCES.

yes, I know CONTRACT and FINANCES are not the same word. But they are obviously talking about the same thing.

then later:

It's the minor leagues for Chapman in April and May. And, NOT BECAUSE OF HIS CONTRACT, but because of the care they need to take with him arm.

you claim it is so they can monitor his arm, watch him under several "real conditions", and completely control all of the conditions of the game.
For two months?!?! makes no sense.

Also they are going to tweak his mechanics, perform ongoing medical tests.
Yeah. Can only do that in the minors.

Still no explanation on how this could be done differently in the minors versus the majors. Some would argue that the majors are "more real" conditions, and also that he'd have more support from the Latin players, etc...
"Completely control the conditions of the game" - what does that even mean? Last time I checked the minor leagues are still trying to win games, and play under "real conditions".

So basically it comes down to your asertion that they are trying to limit his innings/starts. You can limit his innings/starts in Cincinnati too.


He will start the season in the minors, to keep his contract from accelerating, period. He could pitch shut-outs the rest of the Spring, and he'd still start there.
It has NOTHING to do with monitoring his arm.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Kingspoint]

So you're basing your entire opinion on what Dusty Baker said.

No. I'm basing it on what I think of Walt Jockety and what I think is best for Chapman. I think Jockety would agree with me. Just thought it was interesting what Baker said....shocked, actually.

It doesn't really matter, though, does it? That contract was done specifically so that they wouldn't be bringing him up before June 1st, anyway.

[BLEEDS]

No. I'm basing it on what I think of Walt Jockety and what I think is best for Chapman. I think Jockety would agree with me. Just thought it was interesting what Baker said....shocked, actually.

It doesn't really matter, though, does it? That contract was done specifically so that they wouldn't be bringing him up before June 1st, anyway.

Exactly. Which is the exact opposite and point of this thread you started.

It's okay, you can admit when you're wrong, no biggy.

It's a contract thing, IT is the only reason you need to know why Chapman will start the year in the Minors, not what you speculated. IMO, of course.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Vottomatic]

Boys, boys, boys. Can't we all be friends?

I think he should go to the minors for exactly the fact that the 5th starter only has 5 starts between Opening Day and June 1st.

I expect him to dominate the minors, and the club WILL BRING HIM UP around June 1 because of the attendance boost it will give them. $$$$ and not to mention hopefully the dominance it will give them.

But until June 1.........he needs the work.

[NorrisHopper30]

He will be in the minors till June 1st.

[Kingspoint]

Now that June is here, thought it would be a good time to "top" this thread.

I'm not saying I was right or anyone was wrong or anything like that, especially since the thread had a lot of good information in it so we could all understand the situation better. I learned an awful lot from everyone's input. (That's why I look at Redszone.)

Now that June is here, that "monetary clause" is out of the way.

12 weeks later, I now think they're going to wait until an Opening creates itself, and that might not happen if Harang stays and there aren't any more injuries other than Bailey's, who should be back June 8th. If LeCure proves himself Wednesday against the Cardinals, there doesn't seem to be any reason for him not to get another chance when the first need for a Starter comes up again. Chapman could stay in AAA the rest of the AAA season, which would only mean good things for the REDS (they're getting the Starting pitching).

Hindsight now shows that Chapman was never ready to Start in the Majors. Last night's performance was the first all year where he showed the ability to pitch in the Majors. A great performance by Chapman last night. He keeps pitching like this and he'll force a move (Harang) by the REDS.

[Kingspoint]

I see what your saying.....but you know I am going to give you crap for that post of yours about saying Yonder will come up and "force" Votto to LF........Then our GM comes out this spring and says JV isnt going anywhere....its my internet way of saying told ya so....hahah...hope you know I am joking Kings.

BTW, Yonder's going to have to have one heck of a June to get to the Majors by July 9th. Looks like Yonder's staying in AAA for the rest of the AAA season, or September 1st, whichever the REDS deem best for the team and him.

I missed that prediction.

[Kingspoint]

Blurb Tuesday Night from, CincinnatiReds.com:

While he is pitching well and boasts a 5-2 record with a 3.42 ERA, Bats pitching coach Ted Power continues to refine his mechanics.

Improving balance and not falling off to the side too soon is something Power said can go a long way towards becoming more consistent with command. "Because when he first started here with us, he was falling off to third base really heavily, which means his balance was not good."

The adjustments Chapman has had to make are wide-ranging and sometimes easy to overlook. From backing up first base to knowing what to do with bunts, Chapman has received a crash course in fundamentals often not emphasized in his previous baseball experiences.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Kingspoint]

When will he come to the Majors?

Also Tuesday Night from, "CincinnatiReds.com":

It's unknown when Chapman will finally make the much-hyped jump to the big leagues. "In my opinion, we've got a couple pitchers who are much more ready to go to the big leagues. We sent Sam LeCure last time," Sweet said. "He could go. But is he ready to really go up there? No. That's why he's still here."

"When we determine he's ready, I'm sure everybody is going to be wanting to get him up there, and we have people come through regularly, our scouts and coordinators and not just to see him, to see all the pitchers. And they all agree. He's getting better, but he's got a ways to go."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[texasdave]

Improving balance and not falling off to the side too soon is something Power said can go a long way towards becoming more consistent with command. "Because when he first started here with us, he was falling off to third base really heavily, which means his balance was not good."

At times Johnny Cueto falls off to the first base side. Seems like that would be an easy fix, but I guess not.