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Thread: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

  1. #61
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    I do like Cleveland's prospects for 2010. Wouldn't be surprised if they end up winning as many games as Pittsburgh (if Big Ben gets suspended).

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Like MLB, the NHL, and the NBA, there's too many teams and not enough talent.
    Saying things like 12 QBs from later rounds start in the NFL is justification for the Browns to draft all these 3rd+ round guys is silly. You say there isnt enough talent but want to champion that late round QBs are easy to find.

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I believe that's probably pretty close. I can think of 7 or 8 off the top of my head. Brady, Bulger, Schaub, Hasselback, Romo, Delhomme, Cassell. I'm pretty sure Kyle Orton and David Garrard were late round picks as well.
    Bruce Gradkowski (I think he was 6th round by Tampa) if you want to include him. Also drafting the WRONG QB in Rd 1 like Oakland did, like SD did (Leaf), like Cleveland did (Couch and Quinn), like Houston did (Carr) can set you back much worse than taking a guy in the middle/late rounds and rolling the dice.
    Last edited by Slyder; 03-18-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Bruce Gradkowski (I think he was 6th round by Tampa) if you want to include him. Also drafting the WRONG QB in Rd 1 like Oakland did, like SD did (Leaf), like Cleveland did (Couch and Quinn), like Houston did (Carr) can set you back much worse than taking a guy in the middle/late rounds and rolling the dice.
    Not if you keep trying to draft the guys in the 3rd round+ and hope that one some day sticks enough that he isnt viewed as one of the bad NFL QBs.

    Basically only 3 or 4 in last years NFL fit that category and they span from the 90s to today as a timeline.

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Oh whats his name... I seem to remember some guy who played college ball in D2 for some school in Deleware...

    Made a pretty good career out for himself, probably would have had more sooner if not for some musical duo in KC (although I am always thankful for that) and some hot air ESPN guy (Salisbury). Won him an MVP, made a few pro bowls. He was drafted in the 4th round.

    His name? Oh ya Rich Gannon.

    A name from Raider Lore for those who dont want to give up on Brady Quinn... Jim Plunkett
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    Not if you keep trying to draft the guys in the 3rd round+ and hope that one some day sticks enough that he isnt viewed as one of the bad NFL QBs.

    Basically only 3 or 4 in last years NFL fit that category and they span from the 90s to today as a timeline.
    I'd argue Oakland has better luck getting off the scrap heap than they do drafting in the First round.

    First Round Pick QB:
    JaLardman Russell
    Todd Marijuanavich I mean Marinovich
    Marc Wilson

    Vs

    Free Agents/Scrap Heap:
    Rich Gannon
    Jeff Hostetler
    Bruce Gradkowski
    Jim Plunkett
    Darryl Lamonica
    Jeff George (had one of his best seasons in Oakland QB rating of ~91.6 in 97)

    (I do not consider Jay Schroeder in this group because we actually traded a great tackle for him sadly)
    Last edited by Slyder; 03-18-2010 at 01:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    Saying things like 12 QBs from later rounds start in the NFL is justification for the Browns to draft all these 3rd+ round guys is silly. You say there isnt enough talent but want to champion that late round QBs are easy to find.
    They aren't easy to find. 1st Round Quarterbacks aren't easy to find. The Browns certainly know that. Why waste a good 1st Round pick on a Quarterback that only has a 50% chance of being any good when you can use the 1st Round pick on another position where your odds of getting a Pro Bowl player are much, much better?

    It's a crapshoot when it comes to Quarterbacks, so why not throw the dice in the 3rd Round, where if you miss, you don't lose as much. A franchise that has a lot of holes can't afford to screw up a 1st round and early 2nd round pick.

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The bolded part is typical Mangini.
    But it was Holmgren who said it though. But there is some truth to the remainder of what you said, concerning Mangini and the QB situation. I wasn't high on either one of the Brown QBs to begin with. Thought the re-signing of Anderson, and giving him that ridiculous contract, even after the successful season he had, was pure stupidity. They should have sold high IMO. I also didn't jump for joy when they drafted Quinn. I personally thought he was somewhat of an over-rated college QB.

    But even having said that, all the blame can't be placed solely on them. You can't go into the season with a receiving corp that was basically decimated, a running game that had question marks, injuries early on to key players, and hope for the best. You're asking for trouble.

    Their win total was one more then I projected.

    I will say this though, and I do give Mangini credit for that - the team seemed to keep fighting, believed in themselves, and didn't give up. And I saw that in Dec., regardless of the opponent.

    I've been maintaining the same "wait and see" attitude with the Browns as I have been with the Reds.

    I guess I just need to pick better teams to root for.
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    They aren't easy to find. 1st Round Quarterbacks aren't easy to find. The Browns certainly know that. Why waste a good 1st Round pick on a Quarterback that only has a 50% chance of being any good when you can use the 1st Round pick on another position where your odds of getting a Pro Bowl player are much, much better?

    It's a crapshoot when it comes to Quarterbacks, so why not throw the dice in the 3rd Round, where if you miss, you don't lose as much. A franchise that has a lot of holes can't afford to screw up a 1st round and early 2nd round pick.
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    They aren't easy to find. 1st Round Quarterbacks aren't easy to find. The Browns certainly know that. Why waste a good 1st Round pick on a Quarterback that only has a 50% chance of being any good when you can use the 1st Round pick on another position where your odds of getting a Pro Bowl player are much, much better?

    It's a crapshoot when it comes to Quarterbacks, so why not throw the dice in the 3rd Round, where if you miss, you don't lose as much. A franchise that has a lot of holes can't afford to screw up a 1st round and early 2nd round pick.
    Now this I agree with. I was just taking issue with your list of players all turning out to be likely starters. As I said, someone from that list will be a starter so it makes sense to draft one or two of them.

    I think the only times you draft a first round quarterback are when a) you are going to lose so you don't mind the quarterback starting right away,(Manning) b) you're going to lose so you don't mind the quarterback sitting for one season or two and developing behind a veteran (Palmer) or c) You are so stacked at talent everywhere else, you don't mind taking a quarterback and letting him develop. (rare)

    In general, I think the first round and early second round, you have to get guys who are able to step in and start right away.
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  12. #71
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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    But it was Holmgren who said it though. But there is some truth to the remainder of what you said, concerning Mangini and the QB situation. I wasn't high on either one of the Brown QBs to begin with. Thought the re-signing of Anderson, and giving him that ridiculous contract, even after the successful season he had, was pure stupidity. They should have sold high IMO. I also didn't jump for joy when they drafted Quinn. I personally thought he was somewhat of an over-rated college QB.
    You overpay for average quarterbacks. Look at the contract Eli got. Eli is probably falls into the 10-15 range but is being paid like a top 3 QB. I don't exactly think the contract given to Anderson was that awful of a contract. I think the most unfortunate thing about Anderson's best season was the timing. It happened right after the Browns drafted Quinn and traded up to get him. And then the Browns screwed around with both QB's for the better half of 2+ years.

    But even having said that, all the blame can't be placed solely on them. You can't go into the season with a receiving corp that was basically decimated, a running game that had question marks, injuries early on to key players, and hope for the best. You're asking for trouble.
    It is really the Belichick way of coaching. You get rid of bad apples and bring in players who buy into the system. But the problem with all of the Belichick disciples is they didn't build the foundation first. Mangini traded away his two pro bowl skill position players last year. He left the offense void of skill players and their best player can't play QB, WR, or RB and is forced to play either return kicks or play in a wildcat formation.

    You don't win in the NFL without talent. The Edwards trade was awful. Mangini basically gave away Edwards for some of his favorite Jets role players.

    I will say this though, and I do give Mangini credit for that - the team seemed to keep fighting, believed in themselves, and didn't give up. And I saw that in Dec., regardless of the opponent.

    I've been maintaining the same "wait and see" attitude with the Browns as I have been with the Reds.

    I guess I just need to pick better teams to root for.
    IMO I think Mangini is one of the worst coaches in the league. Its his way or the high way, and he really has never been successful in his career. Yea I know his first season with the Jets was good, but IMO that was an outlier kid of season.

    I think the only thing the Browns have going for them is their OL. They have Thomas and Steinbach who are very good and have a 1st round C in Mack. I think in a talent standpoint the Browns are lacking. They may all buy into Mangini's system, but you need talent to compete in the NFL.

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I do like Cleveland's prospects for 2010. Wouldn't be surprised if they end up winning as many games as Pittsburgh (if Big Ben gets suspended).

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by goreds2 View Post
    You missed, "If Big Ben gets suspended".

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    IMO I think Mangini is one of the worst coaches in the league. Its his way or the high way, and he really has never been successful in his career. Yea I know his first season with the Jets was good, but IMO that was an outlier kid of season.
    Some of that may be true. I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to Mangini. But enter Mike Holmgren. While Mangini is still growing into his role, and I had no problem with the Brown's retaining him for next year, because you have to give any new coach a chance, last year showed the flaws in his “I can do everything” approach that Holmgren’s presence most certainly should cure.

    If not, then Mangini will be gone because it's Mike's show now.

    As for the QB position....

    Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace are simply "minding the store" until Holmgren develops a young quarterback from this year's draft. Drafting seventh, Holmgren would have to trade up to get Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen. Bradford probably will go No. 1, so the Browns would have to target the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' pick at No. 3 to jump ahead of the Redskins for Clausen. If that fails, the Browns will have to look at QBs like Colt McCoy, Dan LeFevour in the second or third rounds. And then there is still Tebow - The Browns are one of five teams for which Florida quarterback Tim Tebow will conduct individual workouts ....http://brownschat.clevelandbrowns.co...13/m/155108823

    And I've read some talk that a "sleeper" QB could be Jevon Snead, the QB for Ole Miss. Personally, I like Tony Pike.

    So there are some options available at the QB position for Holmgren.

    Going into the draft, the Browns need so much help in their secondary, and there is so much talent in that area available in the draft, the Browns have to go defense in the first round. Maybe guys like....

    Kareem Jackson - Cornerback, Alabama.
    Darell Stucky, Safety, Kansas

    Shaun Rogers is expected to remain with the Browns in 2010, according to a report by the Cleveland Plain-Dealer. So drafting a DE to complement Rogers would be a big boost for the Brown's defense. Jason Pierre-Paul or Derrick Morgan?

    I think in a talent standpoint the Browns are lacking. They may all buy into Mangini's system, but you need talent to compete in the NFL.
    No doubt one needs talent to compete in the NFL. And while the Browns definitely have multiple needs and weaknesses to fill, they also have some talent too. They just need to add to, or complement, what they do have. Their O-line is gonna be good IMO. And they can fill their needs on the other side of the ball pretty handily in the first two rounds.

    It's not like they are going to "right this ship" and correct everything going into next season. But they can take some really huge steps, push us in the right direction, going into next year with this draft IMO.

    And if Mangini has "difficulties" with Holmgren, then I think we know who is going to win that battle by the end of next season.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Brady Quinn Traded To Denver

    I agree with you GAC, that if the Browns want Claussen, they'll have to make a trade with the Bucs. There's been reports from about 10 clubs though now (could be intentional rumors flying around trying to force his stock to drop) that Claussen is coming off as arrogant and entitled (aka Jay Cutler, Ryan Leaf). That said, I think he's worth risking a High #1 and their 2nd Round to move up to get him. The trade can't be made though until everyone finds out who the RAMS take with #1.


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