The conference has made strides recently but I seem to remember years in the mid AUGHTs where the Big 11 didn't get a team out of the first weekend.Originally Posted by joshnky
Wisconsin seems to be either/or in the tournament. Either they pound teams into submission, or they can't score 40 points.
WVU got the shaft by not getting a 1 seed over Duke, then to top it off, the committee avoids putting WVU with Duke because they don't want to be proven wrong.
Honestly, I didn't care if we got a 2 seed and got put in Duke's bracket, but the #5 team shouldn't have to play the #2 team (UK). It's not fair to either UK or WVU. If WVU doesn't make the elite 8, I've got nothing to complain about, but if we lose to UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be furious.
If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it. Their resumes are not even comparable.
The whole geographic considerations strike me as a weak cop-out.
I can maybe see the idea if say there's a Pac-10 school and an ACC school that are close in rankings, deciding to send the Pac-10 school to the West Region and the ACC school to the East or South region because there isn't a whole lot of reason to send both teams across the country.
But with the West so weak this year, no matter what, somebody was going to be flying out there, so they should have thrown the geographic considerations out the window.
Didn't see anything about Donovan even campaigning for the Gators to get in, but don't let that get in the way of your agenda
Funny Seth Greenberg was mentioned earlier. I wonder if Florida had missed the field if he and Billy Donovan would be campaigning to expand the tournament to 96 teams?
Go Gators!
Using Ken Pomeroy's rankings:
Duke is #1 compared to WVU at #8
Duke won 12 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to NC State
WVU won 10 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to Connecticut
Duke's SOS was #4 compared to WVU at #2
Both teams were the benefit of upsets in the conference tournaments so that they didn't have to face the other top teams.
Now, I'm a Big East fan and will be rooting for West Virginia. Conversely, I think Duke is overrated and Louisville could potentially upset them in the second round. However, their body of work is very similar and Duke finished the year a little more strongly than WVU. Really, there is a large group of teams lumped together on that one-two line that were deserving. Once you get past UK and KU, teams like Syracuse, Duke, WVU, and OSU are all about equal in terms of resume.
Honestly, I thought Duke was a lock for a one seed and that WVU would be the #1 seed over Syracuse.
Last edited by joshnky; 03-15-2010 at 03:11 PM.
Ken Pomeroy??? Who in the world is that? I understand you had to pull something our your rear to argue for Duke, but honestly, who is that guy?
Top 15 RPI Wins:
Duke: ZERO
WVU: SIX!
WVU has beaten: Gtown (TWICE), Nova, Pitt, Ohio State, A&M, Marquette, Notre Dame, Ole Miss
Duke got THROTTLED by Georgetown. I mean ran out of the gym.
WVU plays in the best conference in the land, AND had the number 2 OOC SOS!
Duke lost by double digits to flippin NC State. WVU's "worst loss" was at UCONN, which shot 42 (42!) Free throws in one of the worst homer jobs ever.
Tell me this, if the resumes were flipped, do you think WVU would have gotten the 1 seed? Or do you think Duke got it because of the name on the front of the jersey? Not directly these comments/questions directly at you, just more at the selection committee. I imagine you were just playing devil's advocate.
Ken Pomeroy's a guy you should get to know HB, he's really put a lot of the new thoughts into understanding how best to differentiate teams.
Oddly enough, I don't think committee members take into account what games were THE WORST HOMER JOBS EVER.
Then completely throw that factor out. Still not comparable resumes, and my question was still not answered. If you do the blind resume test, no question WVU gets it. When you attach the names to the resumes, Duke gets it.
Pomeroy is widely considered to be one of the best in the business. His computer rankings are flawed (like the RPI) but are still a valid measure of a team. Even using your preferred measure, Duke was ranked #3 in the RPI.
I'll gladly have a real debate with someone but not when they clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Last edited by joshnky; 03-15-2010 at 03:58 PM.
It all even's out. WVU also beat Louisville in the worst piece of end game officiating this season.
I really wanted to put Texas over Wake Forest, but I can't get past WF's 8th best FG defense.
What do you guys think about Maryland? Looking at stats, I really want to send them far into the tourney, but I just can't get myself to do it.
13th best FG defense
21st best turnover margin
31st best FG%
Clearly don't know what they're talking about? Hah. I asked to compare the resumes, and you picked out one comment I made about the officiating, and that one is. None of my other points were refutable. Still think I'm on the wrong side?
http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/...d=1146&style=2
And regarding the UL game, Mazzula was tripped and hit, so there should have been a foul called. Did it go off his head? Of course, but there was an equally missed call right before that.
And the next call, the ball clearly goes off the UL player if you watch the replay. Granted the officials misused the replay monitor, and should not have been able to do so to make that call, but in the end the correct call was made.
I gave you a comparison using Ken Pomeroy's rankings which you refused to acknowledge as credible. When you used RPI for your basis I pointed out that the RPI ranks Duke ahead of WVU. I realize you're a WVU fan and can't be objective; however, computer rankings have these teams very close and even favor Duke. To say there is "no" comparison between the two doesn't hold up. As I pointed out before, WVU likely deserved a one seed but over Syracuse not Duke.
And I 100% disagree with your assessment of the Louisville game but I don't want to derail the thread with something that happened in January.
So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.
Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.
And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?
Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?
The difference between Duke and WVU is pretty small. There are certainly areas of both resumes that could easily have made either team a #1. Yes you are probably right that Duke got the #1 because they are Duke. Life's not fair so deal with it. Really the difference I see for WVU is which order you play Kentucky and Duke because you are probably going to have to beat them both anyways.
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