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Thread: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

  1. #31
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    The difference between Duke and WVU is pretty small. There are certainly areas of both resumes that could easily have made either team a #1. Yes you are probably right that Duke got the #1 because they are Duke. Life's not fair so deal with it. Really the difference I see for WVU is which order you play Kentucky and Duke because you are probably going to have to beat them both anyways.
    Which is why I have a gripe with it. If we were the 2 seed in Duke's bracket, I wouldn't say a word. I'd actually be ecstatic. I think we deserved to not have to face the big 3 in our first four games. We deserved to face the worst #1 seed based on us finishing 5th (I realize that Duke got the #3 1 seed, which I think is equally ridiculous). If we would have been in Duke's bracket, beaten Duke, and lost to UK, I could accept it. If Duke would have beaten us, I can accept it.

    What I can't stand is the thought of us losing to UK when I feel we deserved an easier route. If we lose before the elite 8? No excuses. I have no case, and I won't whine about the seeding. If we get beat by UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be feel screwed. My goal is the final four, and I think we earned the right to be the 2 seed in the south.

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  3. #32
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Duke might be better than Kentucky. The Cats haven't exactly been battle tested this year.

  4. #33
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Duke might be better than Kentucky. The Cats haven't exactly been battle tested this year.
    Could be. But every Duke and WVU fan knows that is an absolutely perfect matchup for us. Our length was a huge problem for Duke 2 years ago when we spanked them in the NCAA's, and it would be an even bigger problem this year.

    UK has the bodies and athleticism to match up with WVU. I don't think Duke does.

  5. #34
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.

    Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.

    And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?

    Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?
    Actually apparantly according to Pomeroy AND RPI, Duke comes out ahead of West by gawd.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls
    http://kenpom.com/rate.php

    but why let facts get in the way when you can froth at the mouth.
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  6. #35
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Care to try to name the 128 #1 seeds since 1979?

    http://www.sporcle.com/games/Feely/alltime1seeds
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  7. #36
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Actually apparantly according to Pomeroy AND RPI, Duke comes out ahead of West by gawd.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls
    http://kenpom.com/rate.php

    but why let facts get in the way when you can froth at the mouth.
    Wow. Duke is #3 in RPI, and WVU is #4. What a mind-blowingly excellent argument for Duke. Clear cut who is better when you look at those numbers isn't it.

    Who has more top 50 RPI wins?
    Who has more top 100 RPI wins?
    Who has more top 25 RPI wins?
    Who has more top 15 RPI wins?
    Who has the higher SOS?
    Who has the higher OOC SOS?
    Who has the better conference RPI?
    How did Duke do against the 8th place Big East team? A team WVU beat twice?
    Name ONE win better that WVU's SIX best wins?

    Sorry, why should I let these facts get in the way?

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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.

    Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.

    And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?

    Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?
    Pomeroy's ratings are based on efficiency margins, i.e. Points per possession on offense and defense. Not really that crazy. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to assess a team to me. But hey don't let that stop a good rant.

    Oh, and by the way, while Wisconsin might not be the 3rd best team in the country, they are a very good team. They may not look like much, but they are so efficient and don't have many wasted possessions.

  9. #38
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it.
    http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/13...-by-going.html


    NCAA caves to TV pressure by going easy on Duke

  10. #39
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by rdiersin View Post
    Pomeroy's ratings are based on efficiency margins, i.e. Points per possession on offense and defense. Not really that crazy. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to assess a team to me. But hey don't let that stop a good rant.

    Oh, and by the way, while Wisconsin might not be the 3rd best team in the country, they are a very good team. They may not look like much, but they are so efficient and don't have many wasted possessions.
    Grasping for straws really.

    Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

    We all really know why Duke got it.

  11. #40
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Well as much fun as it would be to talk about Duke/WVU for the next 8 pages....

    I already hate my bracket. Final Four I've got Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia and Duke.

  12. #41
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Could be. But every Duke and WVU fan knows that is an absolutely perfect matchup for us. Our length was a huge problem for Duke 2 years ago when we spanked them in the NCAA's, and it would be an even bigger problem this year.

    UK has the bodies and athleticism to match up with WVU. I don't think Duke does.
    To be honest, I wouldn't have as much a gripe with WVU being in over Duke as much as I would have it being over Syracuse. Losing your last regular season game to Louisville followed by an early exit to Georgetown in the Big East tournament shouldn't qualify for a number one seed. At least Duke won their conference tournament (even if the ACC is down this year).

    FWIW, if Kentucky loses to WVU, Kentucky fans are going to be livid for pretty much the exact same reason. Why should Kentucky have to face the best no 2 seed in West Virginia when they were the number two overall seed?

    The way I would have done the 1/2 matchups (leaving everything intact):

    Midwest=Kansas vs Villanova
    East=Kentucky vs Kansas St
    South=Duke vs West Virginia
    West=Syracuse vs Ohio State
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #42
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    To be honest, I wouldn't have as much a gripe with WVU being in over Duke as much as I would have it being over Syracuse. Losing your last regular season game to Louisville followed by an early exit to Georgetown in the Big East tournament shouldn't qualify for a number one seed. At least Duke won their conference tournament (even if the ACC is down this year).

    FWIW, if Kentucky loses to WVU, Kentucky fans are going to be livid for pretty much the exact same reason. Why should Kentucky have to face the best no 2 seed in West Virginia when they were the number two overall seed?

    The way I would have done the 1/2 matchups (leaving everything intact):

    Midwest=Kansas vs Villanova
    East=Kentucky vs Kansas St
    South=Duke vs West Virginia
    West=Syracuse vs Ohio State

    Boom. There it is.

    Although I don't have much of a gripe with Cuse getting a number 1 over us. They beat us on our home court, and won the league outright by 2 games. They lost 2 league games all year in the toughest conference in america.

  14. #43
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Grasping for straws really.

    Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

    We all really know why Duke got it.
    Of course every poll listed there, AP, Coaches, CBS's own special poll, the computers and Ken Pomeroy all had Duke ahead of West Virginia. Take your questions to them.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Grasping for straws really.

    Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

    We all really know why Duke got it.
    I'm not really trying to "defeat" your argument. I thought before you criticize something you obviously don't know about you might like to try to understand it. My mistake for trying to even engage you in a conversation.

    I could care less about Duke's seeding.

  16. #45
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    Re: 2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Boom. There it is.

    Although I don't have much of a gripe with Cuse getting a number 1 over us. They beat us on our home court, and won the league outright by 2 games. They lost 2 league games all year in the toughest conference in america.
    At the same time, WVU managed to win the "toughest conference in America" and has been ranked highly all season. I think the fact that they won the Big East tournament should hold some merit for a number one seed, especially with a team that lost their last two games.

    It can't be worse than Washington winning the Pac-10 tournament about five years ago despite barely being ranked and getting a number one seed.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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