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Thread: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

  1. #16
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by 11larkin11 View Post
    If we had the 07 pen, then yes, but our pen is the strength of our team, with 0 spots for competition, really. Get them their starts in AAA.
    If there's one thing you can say for certain about any bullpen it is...

    "You never know how good your bullpen is from one year to the next".

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  3. #17
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    That's a great question. Chapman, I say yes. I hope Leake makes the rotation, but I doubt he'll be given a real shot and that's a shame IMO. I'd be real careful on overusing Chapman this season in terms of workload, you've already got $30 million invested in him. Wood, I wouldn't mind seeing make 12-15 starts in AAA to see where he's at, then bring him up and use him.

  4. #18
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Chapman would be a fine candidate for bullpen activity since his cost is locked-in to the team for the next 6 seasons.

    Leake / Wood? All you're doing is wasting valuable service time and advancing the date where they start to cost the team lots of money if they are as successful as people are projecting.

    For a small market team like the Reds to compete, they can't be wasting pre-arb years for their top talent.
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  5. #19
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Chapman would be a fine candidate for bullpen activity since his cost is locked-in to the team for the next 6 seasons.
    been in a Chapman thread lately?

  6. #20
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    I have no idea what's best for them. I hope the Reds do.

    I just wanted to duck in here to say that I am beyond giddy at the future of this team with Cueto and Bailey already acclimated to the bigs and Leake/Champan/Wood knocking hard on the door, with Volquez in the wings coming off Tommy John. That is as enviable a collection of young arms as you can find in baseball right now, comparable with Tampa, I would suggest. It is a wonderful base to build from, to deal from, and to get a fanbase charged up about baseball again.

    I am beyond thrilled with how this appears to be developing, and can't wait to see how it all unfolds.

  7. #21
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Weaver's Eighth Law: The best place for a rookie pitcher is in long relief

  8. #22
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    It has been 40 years since Weaver's most successful days with the Palmer/McNally et al crew. Not sure that law still holds up. It may, it may not. It may just be a bon mot. Twins broke Liriano in out of the pen, didn't stop him from blowing an elbow out a short time later.

  9. #23
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I have no idea what's best for them. I hope the Reds do.

    I just wanted to duck in here to say that I am beyond giddy at the future of this team with Cueto and Bailey already acclimated to the bigs and Leake/Champan/Wood knocking hard on the door, with Volquez in the wings coming off Tommy John. That is as enviable a collection of young arms as you can find in baseball right now, comparable with Tampa, I would suggest. It is a wonderful base to build from, to deal from, and to get a fanbase charged up about baseball again.

    I am beyond thrilled with how this appears to be developing, and can't wait to see how it all unfolds.
    I am in the same boat as you. I am excited about the future arms of the Reds. I also have begun to temper those expectations because it is just spring training. IIRC Homer had a pretty impressive spring only to stumble his way through the first half of the season. IMO pitchers have an advantage early over the hitters. When that advantage catches up you will really see the metal of the pitchers.

    What I bolded is the most important issue to me. While I seriously doubt the idea of Chapman will ever be considered and would doubt Leake would be traded, the Reds have quite a few trading chips at their disposal. I really think Walt will be active over the next few years building a very good club.

  10. #24
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Off the top of my head, recent successful young pitchers who have not served time in long relief:

    Lincecum, Cain, F. Hernandez, Cole Hamels, Verlander, Porcello, Billingsley, Kershaw, Jurrjens. And probably others, if I spent some time musing over it.

    I think the Twins broke J. Santana in via long relief, and that obviously turned out much better than Liriano did.

    I just don't know that there is a "best" way.

  11. #25
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Weaver's Eighth Law: The best place for a rookie pitcher is in long relief
    Which of course begs the question of what to do with Micah Owings.

    Also, in Weaver's day, I don't think they carried 12 pitchers.
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  12. #26
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Off the top of my head, recent successful young pitchers who have not served time in long relief:

    Lincecum, Cain, F. Hernandez, Cole Hamels, Verlander, Porcello, Billingsley, Kershaw, Jurrjens. And probably others, if I spent some time musing over it.

    I think the Twins broke J. Santana in via long relief, and that obviously turned out much better than Liriano did.

    I just don't know that there is a "best" way.
    I think the Twins broke Santana in via long relief because he was a rule V player.

  13. #27
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    It has been 40 years since Weaver's most successful days with the Palmer/McNally et al crew. Not sure that law still holds up. It may, it may not. It may just be a bon mot. Twins broke Liriano in out of the pen, didn't stop him from blowing an elbow out a short time later.
    I think it's about more than keeping a guy healthy and his pitch loads down; though that's certainly among the benefits. It also gives a guy a chance to adjust to the league, get used to the lifestyle, trust his stuff, etc. in a lower pressure environment. It gives the pitcher a chance to build a rapport with his catchers and for the major league pitching coach to get a good feel for the guy and his tendencies.

    In general, it's about easing the transition to the majors and reducing the chance of failure. It's probably less useful for a polished, big-college guy like Leake than for somebody like Chapman, Liriano, or Santana.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #28
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: should Chapman, Leake, Wood pitch out of the pen in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think it's about more than keeping a guy healthy and his pitch loads down; though that's certainly among the benefits. It also gives a guy a chance to adjust to the league, get used to the lifestyle, trust his stuff, etc. in a lower pressure environment. It gives the pitcher a chance to build a rapport with his catchers and for the major league pitching coach to get a good feel for the guy and his tendencies.

    In general, it's about easing the transition to the majors and reducing the chance of failure. It's probably less useful for a polished, big-college guy like Leake than for somebody like Chapman, Liriano, or Santana.
    Exactly, it's a good thing for some, and others that threw in college maybe not so much. Some guys like Willis, Gooden, Nolan jump right into the fire, sometimes they burn out quicker too.

    Coddle thy arms...
    Last edited by westofyou; 03-16-2010 at 12:13 PM.


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