Turn Off Ads?
Page 9 of 18 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 256

Thread: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

  1. #121
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,693

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Arroyo's been dogged for the same "peripherals" since the day Krivsky traded for him. It's old now. In my opinion, the stat guys have been looking at the wrong stuff with him. He's about IP, starts and quality start % IMHO.

    And beyond that, he's as close to an artist as there is pitching in baseball these days. That's what folks really shouldn't miss.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #122
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,898

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    For reference on Arroyo:

    Code:
    	IP	K/9	BB/9	HR/9	ERA	FIP	BABIP	LOB%	WAR	Dollars
    2006	240.7	6.88	2.39	1.16	3.29	4.15	.279	78.0%	4.2	$15.5
    2007	210.7	6.66	2.69	1.20	4.23	4.57	.318	74.0%	2.7	$11.2
    2008	200.0	7.34	3.06	1.31	4.77	4.50	.321	70.1%	2.4	$10.2
    2009	220.3	5.19	2.66	1.27	3.84	4.78	.270	76.5%	1.8	$8.1
    										
    Average	218.0	6.51	2.68	1.23	4.00	4.49	.296	74.8%	2.8	$11.4
    Career	1459.7	6.15	2.77	1.12	4.24	4.44	.297	70.6%	19.2	$71.3
    It turns out that, to paraphrase Denny Green, Arroyo is who we thought he was. Now, I'll admit, I'm surprised by Arroyo's ERA compared to his FIP -- and it's twice the differential we've seen for his career (given that his time with the Reds are more than 50%, that means prior to coming to the Reds, his ERA was higher than his FIP). I'm guessing it doesn't get much more off than that, given his league average BABIP and 800+ IP. The only real aberration I see statistically in that his LOB% is a good deal higher than league average, which floats between 70-72%.

    200 IP of a 4.00 ERA is definitely valuable -- to the tune of about $11M a year. Suffice it to say that Arroyo has been a bargain during his time as a Red. And unless his performance falls off a cliff, he'll be paid fairly through the end of his contract. And if you judge a player by the value he provides his team relative to his compensation, Arroyo has been a good deal for the Reds. He seems very much to be a high floor/ low ceiling type guy. He's not going to be worth 5 wins in any season, but you can count on him being worth a few wins per -- and that sort of reliability usually costs a premium.

    All that said, I'd be remiss if I didn't observe that his production has dipped each year, as measured by WAR. It's probably not completely fair to use his career season as the starting point for the trend line, but it does suggest that his current skill level is that of a ~2 win player.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 03-21-2010 at 11:16 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #123
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,693

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    For reference on Arroyo:

    Code:
    	IP	K/9	BB/9	HR/9	ERA	FIP	BABIP	LOB%	WAR	Dollars
    2006	240.7	6.88	2.39	1.16	3.29	4.15	.279	78.0%	4.2	$15.5
    2007	210.7	6.66	2.69	1.20	4.23	4.57	.318	74.0%	2.7	$11.2
    2008	200.0	7.34	3.06	1.31	4.77	4.50	.321	70.1%	2.4	$10.2
    2009	220.3	5.19	2.66	1.27	3.84	4.78	.270	76.5%	1.8	$8.1
    										
    Average	218.0	6.51	2.68	1.23	4.00	4.49	.296	74.8%	2.8	$11.4
    Career	1459.7	6.15	2.77	1.12	4.24	4.44	.297	70.6%	19.2	$71.3
    It turns out that, to paraphrase Denny Green, Arroyo is who we thought he was. Now, I'll admit, I'm surprised by Arroyo's ERA compared to his FIP -- and it's twice the differential we've seen for his career (given that his time with the Reds are more than 50%, that means prior to coming to the Reds, his ERA was higher than his FIP). I'm guessing it doesn't get much more off than that, given his league average BABIP and 800+ IP. The only real aberration I see statistically in that his LOB% is a good deal higher than league average, which floats between 70-72%.

    200 IP of a 4.00 ERA is definitely valuable -- to the tune of about $11M a year. Suffice it to say that Arroyo has been a bargain during his time as a Red. And unless his performance falls off a cliff, he'll be paid fairly through the end of his contract. And if you judge a player by the value he provides his team relative to his compensation, Arroyo has been a good deal for the Reds. He seems very much to be a high floor/ low ceiling type guy. He's not going to be worth 5 wins in any season, but you can count on him being worth a few wins per -- and that sort of reliability usually costs a premium.

    Agree with your post in general though I'm not sold on all the numbers in the chart. When I'm evaluating a pitcher I look at BB/9, K/9 and HR/9 just like the FIP guys do, along with IP, BABIP and his actual ERAs from the previous years. I think the formulas though, stick to strictly to the theory of pitching being fielding independent. So things like K/9 are a little over valued and while just getting outs is not getting enough credit. BABIP and DER aren't all about luck and the defense. A pitcher giving up ropes all over the place is going to have a higher BABIP and lower DER but the formula will chalk it up as bad luck or poor defense and be a little too forgiving. OTOH, a guy who keeps hitters off balance and induces lots of weak grounders and lazy fly balls gets passed off as being lucky or owing his success to his defense. I think the formula is missing the mark. Its OK for looking at an odd season that sticks out from the others, but ignoring 800+ innings of actual results in favor of the theoretical ones seems way off base to me.

    The real value of Arroyo is the large number of competitive innings he throws. It goes beyond his innings and effects the innings of the rest of the staff. There is no way to know, but I'd say guys like Cueto, Bailey and Volquez may have already washed out without guys like Arroyo and Harang to absorb the burden of laying down the inning foundation of the staff. Its one reason that I'm not in favor of throwing all the kids in the rotation at once and dealing off say Harang and Arroyo and turning it over to Chapman and Leake. Let Bailey and Cueto spend the year working up to becoming the inning guys while Harang and Arroyo are still around before introducing the others. I wish there was a vet for the 5th spot in spite of all the young talent.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #124
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,132

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    He's what? 35?

    This ain't 1998. The likelihood he'll be on the DL this year is high. He hasn't played over 130 games since 2006, and in the 2 seasons prior to 2009 his highest OPS was .780.

    I wouldn't have made that trade 1 times out of 10, not because of EE, but because the Reds system was about to produce Frazier, Francisco and even Alonso.

    It was a classic case of buying high.
    So they had three people at 3b, none at the time above AA, two who shouldn't even bother bringing a mitt with them when they get to the field and you're willing to set your future on that?

    Now if Rolen gets hurt, Frazier is a perfectly acceptable replacement. Before you were staking your next 3 years to Frazier being good enough which he may or may not be.

    Is there any proof that Stewart is going to be better than Leake, Maloney or Wood? Because if not he wasn't going to make the Reds rotation anyway.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  6. #125
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,898

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Agree with your post in general though I'm not sold on all the numbers in the chart. When I'm evaluating a pitcher I look at BB/9, K/9 and HR/9 just like the FIP guys do, along with IP, BABIP and his actual ERAs from the previous years. I think the formulas though, stick to strictly to the theory of pitching being fielding independent. So things like K/9 are a little over valued and while just getting outs is not getting enough credit.
    Every analysis that's been done to try to tease out the impact a pitcher can have on runs has shown that they really don't have control over "just getting outs" beyond strikeouts and batted ball types. If they did, it would show up in the stats -- and it just doesn't. And even in so far as pitchers can control LD%, it's a very small ability. Most of their control of batted balls is in GB and FB.

    BABIP and DER aren't all about luck and the defense. A pitcher giving up ropes all over the place is going to have a higher BABIP and lower DER but the formula will chalk it up as bad luck or poor defense and be a little too forgiving. OTOH, a guy who keeps hitters off balance and induces lots of weak grounders and lazy fly balls gets passed off as being lucky or owing his success to his defense. I think the formula is missing the mark. Its OK for looking at an odd season that sticks out from the others, but ignoring 800+ innings of actual results in favor of the theoretical ones seems way off base to me.
    So let's take a look at Arroyo's batted ball types. Arroyo's LD% as a Red is 21%, slightly above league average. His GB/FB ratio as a Red is 1.10, again very average. Here's something interesting however, let's look at his IFFB% (Infield fly ball %): Among pitchers with 150+ IP:

    2006: 11.5% (25th in MLB of 92)
    2007: 15.4% (1st of 92)
    2008: 17.2% (2nd of 99)
    2009: 12.3% (15th of 87)

    Hopefully, hit f/x will give us some more insight in to this. Maybe it's true that some pitchers allow weaker hit balls on average (even within the type of hit). I think it's quite likely that his inducing infield fly balls at a very high rate is playing a significant role in his lower than expected ERA. The question then goes to exactly how much control pitchers have over IFFB%. We should be careful in attributing this performance to a skill (and thus repeatable and predictive). I think it's reasonable to suggest pitcher's do have some control over it, probably related to movement which makes it difficult for batters to square up the ball, but we should be cautious in assuming just how much of the variance is due to skill vs. random variation.

    (As to your point about value, sure, value goes beyond just what a guy does on the field. But that can be said about any player; it's not something special we should give Arroyo extra credit for.)

    I'm going to take a look at BP's new SIERA (skill interactive ERA) stat and see if that sheds any light. For those not familiar, it's basically a super FIP, based on the same principal of only looking at those things which a pitcher can control. However, it includes more information than FIP, including batted ball types (includes pop ups).

    Code:
    	IP	K/9	BB/9	HR/9	GB%	LD%	FB%	IFFB%	LOB%	BABIP	ERA	FIP	SIERRA
    2006	240.7	6.88	2.39	1.16	38.2%	21.2%	40.6%	11.5%	78.0%	.279	3.29	4.15	3.99
    2007	210.7	6.66	2.69	1.20	35.3%	20.9%	43.8%	15.4%	74.0%	.318	4.23	4.57	4.28
    2008	200.0	7.34	3.06	1.31	41.5%	22.9%	35.6%	17.2%	70.1%	.321	4.77	4.50	4.06
    2009	220.3	5.19	2.66	1.27	44.8%	18.5%	36.7%	12.3%	76.5%	.270	3.84	4.78	4.61
    Average	218.0	6.51	2.68	1.23	39.9%	20.8%	39.2%	14.0%	74.8%	.296	4.00	4.49	4.23
    At least for Arroyo, it looks like SIERA has done a better job at predicting ERA than FIP, though he's still been "lucky". Again, hit f/x should be quite illuminating and allow us to better describe batted balls and increase the accuracy of stats like this which attempt to remove the noise of park and defense.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 03-21-2010 at 12:22 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #126
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yeah, I hate those blunt instruments that involve large sample sizes and that tell a clear, unmistakable story.

    If you want to have a discussion about the nuance of how Bronson Arroyo has been an above average pitcher for the Reds during the balance of his four years with the club, go ahead. Throw FIP into the fire, L/R and home-road splits, opponent OPS, BABIP, the whole kitchen sink.

    Yet there's no arguing that for four years he's been one of the better pitchers in the game at logging innings and limiting runs. Sorry if that's not nuanced or sophisticated enough for you, but there's nothing nuanced or sophisticated about it. The guy took the ball and did the job. That's what teams pay for.

    It's the endpoint because in the end that is the point.
    Well said.

  8. #127
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,693

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Every analysis that's been done to try to tease out the impact a pitcher can have on runs has shown that they really don't have control over "just getting outs" beyond strikeouts and batted ball types. If they did, it would show up in the stats -- and it just doesn't. And even in so far as pitchers can control LD%, it's a very small ability. Most of their control of batted balls is in GB and FB.



    So let's take a look at Arroyo's batted ball types. Arroyo's LD% as a Red is 21%, slightly above league average. His GB/FB ratio as a Red is 1.10, again very average. Here's something interesting however, let's look at his IFFB% (Infield fly ball %)

    Hopefully, hit f/x will give us some more insight in to this. Maybe it's true that some pitchers allow weaker hit balls on average (even within the type of hit). But until then, I think we're on fairly shaky ground to assert that Arroyo does this -- especially when the FIP-ERA differential we've observed over the past few years never occurred in Pittsburgh or Boston.

    As to your point about value, sure, value goes beyond just what a guy does on the field. But that can be said about any player; it's not something special we should give Arroyo extra credit for.
    Fly balls are the easiest types of batted balls to convert to outs. If they are induced without giving up square contact most of the time, they are harmless lazy fly balls. Jay Bruce 2009 should be ample evidence of how harmless a bunch of fly balls can be when not hit squarely. Sure there will be HR as a side effect but it gets a lot of outs in the process. Bert Blyleven probably makes the HOF next year with that as one of his main strengths while putting up similar K/9 and BB/9 numbers to Arroyo's 4 years in Cincy. Arroyo gave up more HR but I think parks and eras can probably explain most of that. Arroyo's 4 seasons in Cincy aren't HOF worthy by any means (but if he did it for 22 years and amassed 250+ wins and 3000ish K's you might think twice), but he's not garbage either which seems to be the most common misconception on Redszone.

    I do think his contract is a little steep, but its not out of line with a lot of other guys. Fact is the Reds could have probably let Arroyo go and tried to get a similar mid-rotation replacement who can throw all those innings to keep the team from overtaxing the kids, but it would have cost at least as much and its doubtful that the team would have actually been able to lure one here and if they did, it would probably have been more of a 170 inning type than the 220ish that Arroyo provides. Those 50 innings are huge for a team with a lot of kids and question marks filling out the staff. I've never looked at that contract as the massive mistake that so many others on here have.
    Last edited by mth123; 03-21-2010 at 12:32 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  9. #128
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,136

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    And because "what did the guy actually accomplish in the past" and "what do his stats predict about his future" aren't the same question.
    Exactly.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #129
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,898

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    he's not garbage either which seems to be the most common misconception on Redszone.
    I think this is a bit of a strawman. People here value him, they just see him as a league average guy instead of a TOR type. I think the big misconception is that he's overpaid because he's making $10M as a league average starter. But the reality is that he's being paid what the market would bear for his production. Whether or not the Reds should pay market price for production is another conversation entirely, but the arguments that he's overpaid are not well supported by facts.

    I do think his contract is a little steep, but its not out of line with a lot of other guys. Fact is the Reds could have probably let Arroyo go and tried to get a similar mid-rotation replacement who can throw all those innings to keep the team from overtaxing the kids, but it would have cost at least as much and its doubtful that the team would have actually been able to lure one here and if they did, it would probably have been more of a 170 inning type than the 220ish that Arroyo provides. Those 50 innings are huge for a team with a lot of kids and question marks filling out the staff. I've never looked at that contract as the massive mistake that so many others one here have.
    I agree. My only complaint about his contract is that it gave up one more year where we had him extremely cheap. However, as you point out, it's hardly guaranteed that the Reds could have replaced his production at his price in FA at the time the contract was given.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #130
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    I mentioned this in another thread about Arroyo. Here's an article that talks about his breaking ball as being one of the best in baseball last year. Funny quote:

    Bronson Arroyo is to pitch classification systems as Bronson Arroyo's name is to Tim McCarver's brain. Nevertheless, his curveball(s?) are good pitches.
    DR. H gets an honorable mention for his off-speed offerings.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  12. #131
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,136

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    At least for Arroyo, it looks like SIERA has done a better job at predicting ERA than FIP, though he's still been "lucky".
    I think SIERA is a step in the right direction, though I think it's illuminating that we're always comparing new pitching stats to ERA. Note that we don't do that with pitching wins and RBIs. For instance, no one's comparing RC/27 to RBI or looking to predict RBI with RC/27.

    I get a bit of kick when people (not you or anybody here, just people out in the baseball stats community) use ERA as a punching bag and then tether everything to it.

    Push comes to shove, ERA and ERA+ are pretty decent basic representations of how well a pitcher performed in the past. You're always going to want to dig beneath that to figure out well a guy will do in the future. That would be true of any broad past performance representation. Yet something has to stand in and take the heat for when we want to say a guy did X well.

    Also, whenever we talk about how well we expect a pitcher to do in the future, it translates to ERA. If someone thinks Johnny Cueto is going to have a breakout season the expectation is that will be represented by a good ERA at the end of the season. Obviously ERA is not the means to the end (and I don't recall it ever being treated as such), but a good ERA is a desirable end.

    Anyway, whenever I look at broad set of numbers concerning Bronson Arroyo (like what you've posted), it reminds me that he's complex, tough to sum up. I think lollipopcurve is right to move beyond that and note that Arroyo's been worthy of appreciation no matter how people may want to dissect him.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #132
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    Thank you. A voice of reason.

    In my opinion, Arroyo has earned every penny he's earned as a Red.
    Very much so, especially since he was brought on with such a cheap contract. He's made what, roughly $22MM as a Red in 4 years here?

    That still doesn't mean the extension made sense.

  14. #133
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,872

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Arroyo can start being valuable again by keeping his ERA, FIP, xFIP, BABIP, at a level better than a replacement pitcher for the months of April, May, and June.

    Yes, those months matter more to a franchise like the Reds; they mean things get added or subtracted on July 31. The Yankees can afford to let a guy work through his guitar-induced carpal tunnel. The Reds can't; they gotta play two seasons, not one.

  15. #134
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,898

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think SIERA is a step in the right direction, though I think it's illuminating that we're always comparing new pitching stats to ERA. Note that we don't do that with pitching wins and RBIs. For instance, no one's comparing RC/27 to RBI or looking to predict RBI with RC/27.

    I get a bit of kick when people (not you or anybody here, just people out in the baseball stats community) use ERA as a punching bag and then tether everything to it.

    Push comes to shove, ERA and ERA+ are pretty decent basic representations of how well a pitcher performed in the past. You're always going to want to dig beneath that to figure out well a guy will do in the future. That would be true of any broad past performance representation. Yet something has to stand in and take the heat for when we want to say a guy did X well.

    Also, whenever we talk about how well we expect a pitcher to do in the future, it translates to ERA. If someone thinks Johnny Cueto is going to have a breakout season the expectation is that will be represented by a good ERA at the end of the season. Obviously ERA is not the means to the end (and I don't recall it ever being treated as such), but a good ERA is a desirable end.

    Anyway, whenever I look at broad set of numbers concerning Bronson Arroyo (like what you've posted), it reminds me that he's complex, tough to sum up. I think lollipopcurve is right to move beyond that and note that Arroyo's been worthy of appreciation no matter how people may want to dissect him.
    It's a fair critique, M2. Good post. But unfortunately, I think it's one of necessity. People simply will not accept FIP or SIERA or what-have-you as ways to measure performance outside of the context they're already familiar with. They make the argument that it is "not reality" or something along those lines. And to a certain degree, that's true. But by tethering it to ERA, you bypass the math-based argument to give the stat some credibility.

    The attraction of ERA, supposedly, is that it only uses real runs. But what's interesting, as you infer, is that ERA itself is uses a process to try to only judge the pitcher based on what he's responsible for. It categorizes all runs scored in earned and unearned runs using an extremely soft, unscientific process. But to most people, it is still valid because those runs were actually scored, regardless of how you categorized them.

    So to that extent, FIP and SIERA and the like are simple extension of the same logic of using ERA instead of RA. But the leap that upsets people is going from actual runs scored to the average run values of individual events. So many of the new saber stats use this approach -- and the average fan just doesn't understand and/or isn't willing to accept the validity of this method.

    I think a better way to move forward, rather than comparing to ERA, would be to simply reframe the conversation. Forget the ERA comparisons. ERA is a measurement of what happened given actual runs scored. Fine. FIP, SIERA, etc. is about recognizing that a pitcher doesn't have much control over the timing of things, so we need to give him credit for the outcome each plate appearance. Yes, the defense-isolating part of it matters too, but ERA proponents argue that ERA does this too (if only roughly).

    The big logical jump is more the use of more granular information. The public clearly has some capacity to do this, as QB rating shows. They recognize that just measuring yards and TDs ignores the nuance of being a QB. So they blindly use a convoluted formula which nobody understands to provide a general assessment of QB performance. It gets used on every broadcast and even in the video games. But FIP, SIERA, etc are much better as they actually use the currency of the game, runs.

    I'd be fine using just IP and SIERA to generally discuss how well a guy pitch or can be expected to pitch in the figure, absent the full exhortation I just went through with Arroyo. Of course, that's the beauty of using skill based stats -- because skills don't fluctuate much and tend to follow general aging curves, past performance becomes a darn good predictor of future performance. But I digress, I doubt many others around here or elsewhere would be willing to do the same. They're too hung up on the nuances of what these stats don't measure -- and prefer to stick to things that they're comfortable with and can more easily understand, regardless of how accurately they actually answer the questions being asked.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #135
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: What did Walt Jocketty do differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Arroyo can start being valuable again by keeping his ERA, FIP, xFIP, BABIP, at a level better than a replacement pitcher for the months of April, May, and June.

    Yes, those months matter more to a franchise like the Reds; they mean things get added or subtracted on July 31. The Yankees can afford to let a guy work through his guitar-induced carpal tunnel. The Reds can't; they gotta play two seasons, not one.
    100% correct. Having him pitch like Cy Young in Sept means absolutely nothing for this franchise if he pitches like Anthony Young in April, May and June.


Turn Off Ads?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25