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Thread: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Watching the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPNU right now and Gordon Beckham is on. As most here know, he came up as a third baseman last year and has been moved to 2B this year. He was asked if he still wanted to be a SS like he played in college, if he would perhaps move back to third one day or if he thought he would stay at 2B long term. Beckham said he thinks he found a home at second and hopes he "spend(s) the rest of (his) career there."

    If he was a shortstop, I would say the Reds made a huge mistake in not drafting him. However, if even he views himself as a 2B all the way for the rest of his career, I fully understand why the Reds did what they did. They thought Alonso was the best player on the board and they didn't think Beckham was a SS at the MLB level.

    Now, one could argue that Beckham has a higher trade value right now and that alone would have been worth taking him over Alonso, but I don't have a problem with what the Reds did. Didn't at the time and still don't. I understand the head-scratching since the Reds already had Votto, but it was still a solid pick. I would feel completely different if Gordon Beckham was a true SS. If we had let our SS of the future (and one that can hit) slip through our hands, it would have been awful. But the kid is not a shortstop.

    Hopefully Yonder tears the cover off the ball this year (at AAA to start and then maybe a call-up at some point as a big bat off the bench or an injury replacement) and reminds everyone why he was the correct pick.

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Definitely pulling for Alonso, but I recently read something by (i think it was keith law) that said he wishes they would give Beckham a try at SS again because he is one of the most instinctive players there he's ever seen.
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    The problem with Yonder was the same one when they drafted him ... Joey Votto. He is nothing more than trade bait at this point.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    The problem with Yonder was the same one when they drafted him ... Joey Votto. He is nothing more than trade bait at this point.
    Which is what Beckham would be too.

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Which is what Beckham would be too.
    really....... I think beckam would be our starting SS right now and for the future. Do you think he cant play short? I know I have seen some people question whether he could or not but it seems like if he could just be an average SS his bat would make him worth it.

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    really....... I think beckam would be our starting SS right now and for the future. Do you think he cant play short? I know I have seen some people question whether he could or not but it seems like if he could just be an average SS his bat would make him worth it.
    Killer question... Do you think he would be worse defensively than Cabrera at this point?

    sick burn.
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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    If the White Sox thought Beckham was a real SS, they would be playing him there.


    Alexei Ramirez, their current SS is not a natural SS, having played in CF when he was in Cuba and 2B his first year in the majors. The White Sox considered him a SS project in 2009, and he responded adequately, but with enough rough spots, that if they Beckham was a true SS option, they would take it, or at least try him there.

    The fact that they aren't even trying him at SS is a sure sign that he really isn't one.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    really....... I think beckam would be our starting SS right now and for the future. Do you think he cant play short? I know I have seen some people question whether he could or not but it seems like if he could just be an average SS his bat would make him worth it.
    Why would you think that? The Reds move their guys slow. Beckham would have finished last season in AA if the Reds drafted him because he would have been blocked. Plus, the guy isn't a shortstop at all. Third baseman, maybe. Second baeseman, maybe. Shortstop, no.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    If the White Sox thought Beckham was a real SS, they would be playing him there.


    Alexei Ramirez, their current SS is not a natural SS, having played in CF when he was in Cuba and 2B his first year in the majors. The White Sox considered him a SS project in 2009, and he responded adequately, but with enough rough spots, that if they Beckham was a true SS option, they would take it, or at least try him there.

    The fact that they aren't even trying him at SS is a sure sign that he really isn't one.
    Pretty much my take on this verbatim.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    If the White Sox thought Beckham was a real SS, they would be playing him there.


    Alexei Ramirez, their current SS is not a natural SS, having played in CF when he was in Cuba and 2B his first year in the majors. The White Sox considered him a SS project in 2009, and he responded adequately, but with enough rough spots, that if they Beckham was a true SS option, they would take it, or at least try him there.

    The fact that they aren't even trying him at SS is a sure sign that he really isn't one.
    Oh, please. Lets everybody look at things in a vacuum. Ramirez is playing because of his bat, and he's playing SS because he's solid there and was terrible at 2B in '08. Just because Beckham is playing 2B doesn't mean he can't play SS (which he's already proven he can, despite what the FO apologists like Doug say).

    Weak, weak argument. The lengths people will go to justify a bad move...

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Oh, please. Lets everybody look at things in a vacuum. Ramirez is playing because of his bat, and he's playing SS because he's solid there and was terrible at 2B in '08. Just because Beckham is playing 2B doesn't mean he can't play SS (which he's already proven he can, despite what the FO apologists like Doug say).

    Weak, weak argument. The lengths people will go to justify a bad move...
    Gonna agree here... Went back and found the article... It's an INsider piece by Law about the breakout candidates for this season where he mentioned that he really wishes the White Sox would give him a run at SS.
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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Oh, please. Lets everybody look at things in a vacuum. Ramirez is playing because of his bat, and he's playing SS because he's solid there and was terrible at 2B in '08. Just because Beckham is playing 2B doesn't mean he can't play SS (which he's already proven he can, despite what the FO apologists like Doug say).

    Weak, weak argument. The lengths people will go to justify a bad move...
    Beckham hasn't played an inning of SS in the majors, so how can you argue that he has already proven that he can? Because he played SS in college? Then Todd Frazier should be given the Reds SS job because he clearly has proven that he can play SS.

    And the White Sox moved Ramirez to the most difficult position on the field because he was terrible at an easier one? They went with him at SS because they had no other options, and prayed for the best. Ask any White Sox fan and they will tell you that Ramirez was terrible at first at SS, but seemed to be passable by the end of the season.

    You said it, he's in the lineup for his bat. He's a below average fielder wherever you put him, so why keep him at the most difficult position if you had a true SS like you say Beckham really is?

    And for the record, I was for the Reds drafting Smoak instead of Beckham or Alonso, and still think they should have.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #13
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    If the Reds had drafted Beckham, he'd likely be at 3B and Rolen would be elsewhere. Zach Stewart would still be a Red or the Reds may have found a more appropriate deal for him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If the Reds had drafted Beckham, he'd likely be at 3B and Rolen would be elsewhere. Zach Stewart would still be a Red or the Reds may have found a more appropriate deal for him.
    And we wouldn't have Alonso or whatever he or Joey Votto will bring in a trade (or what some other part of our mix will bring in a trade if the org. figures out how to get these 2 of the system's best left-handed bats into the lineup at the same time.)

  16. #15
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Revisiting Beckham v Alonso

    The sole reason I didn't really care for the Alonso pick is he was touted as a 1b only. For a NL team that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It didn't matter than Votto was a 1b at the time because he still was a question mark. I just don't think its smart drafting to have a player play only one position because you never know if someone else will beat him out.

    FWIW I think if Alonso can play LF then the pick makes more and more sense. But I also think that if the Reds saw Beckham as nothing more than a corner IF then you pick the better bat and Alonso fit the bill at that time.

    As for the Reds moving their prospects at a slow rate I think that is a bit of a fallacy. It appears the Reds are giving Mike Leake a shot at winning the 5th starter spot without any minor league experience. I think you can call that warp speed. What I can see is Jocketty wants to make sure the player is truly ready for the bigs, not ready for an up and down up and down rodeo. A lot can be learned from the Homer experiment and when he truly became ready for the majors. IIRC some people were calling for Homer to be brought up into the pen 4 years ago.


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