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Thread: Greatest Living Pitcher

  1. #1
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Greatest Living Pitcher

    With the Greatest Living Hitter thread going on, this seems like a natural topic. I'm surprised no one has started it yet.

    Who is the best pitcher still living today? I'm sure I'll forget some candidates, but a few from the top off my head include:

    Koufax
    Gibson
    Seaver
    Maddux
    Pedro Martinez
    Eckersley (do relievers count? His stint as a closer was awfully good and he had at least a decent career starting as well.)

    Koufax was the one I thought of first, but I guess longevity is the question with him. (Actually Warren Spahn was my 2nd thought, but I believe he has passed away.)

    Discuss.

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Maddux...What he has accomplished in this hitter friendly era along with playing in crackerjack size stadiums puts him at the top for me.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  4. #3
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Clemens. A hole with PED implications but guy was flat out dominant for a long, long time.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    I want to say Maddux, as I love his style, personality and his peak, but I think Roger Clemens had the greatest career -- particularly given that he pitched in the AL most of the time.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Maddux...What he has accomplished in this hitter friendly era along with playing in crackerjack size stadiums puts him at the top for me.
    Yep, Maddux then Seaver/Pedro/Perry/Clemens/Koufax/Perry/carlton/Gibson/Johnson/palmer

    Then you have Perry/Sutton/Glavine/Jenkins

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    A visitor from the future told me the correct answer is Aroldis Chapman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Yep, Maddux then Seaver/Pedro/Perry/Clemens/Koufax/Perry/carlton/Gibson/Johnson/palmer

    Then you have Perry/Sutton/Glavine/Jenkins
    For my money John Smoltz belongs somewhere in the upper half of your list. Where exactly I couldn't say. 200+ wins 150+ saves probably won't even be seen again.

  9. #8
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    I didn't include Clemens because of the allegations of drug use, but that was probably my mistake. I can't believe I forgot Randy Johnson and Steve Carlton.

  10. #9
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Koufax and it's not even close.

    No one was as unhittable as him during his six year dominance.

    129-47 W-L 2.19 ERA

    156 ERA+ 0.970 WHIP 0.6 HR/9 2.3 BB/9 9.4 K/9 4.16 K/BB

    And his career numbers are still great.

    165-87 W-L 2.76 ERA

    131 ERA+ 1.106 WHIP 0.8 HR/9 3.2 BB/9 9.3 K/9 2.93 K/BB

    And this was his final year before he retired due to injury.

    27-9 W-L 1.73 ERA 41 GS 27 CG 190 ERA+ 5 Shutouts 317 K's

    He also was one of the greatest post season pitchers ever.

    What's key is that if you look at anyone else's stats after their first 12 years, they were not as dominant as Koufax was during his 12 year career. If had pitched 5 more years, it wouldn't even be a question, it would be a given.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Koufax and it's not even close.

    No one was as unhittable as him during his six year dominance.

    129-47 W-L 2.19 ERA

    156 ERA+ 0.970 WHIP 0.6 HR/9 2.3 BB/9 9.4 K/9 4.16 K/BB

    And his career numbers are still great.

    165-87 W-L 2.76 ERA

    131 ERA+ 1.106 WHIP 0.8 HR/9 3.2 BB/9 9.3 K/9 2.93 K/BB

    And this was his final year before he retired due to injury.

    27-9 W-L 1.73 ERA 41 GS 27 CG 190 ERA+ 5 Shutouts 317 K's

    He also was one of the greatest post season pitchers ever.

    What's key is that if you look at anyone else's stats after their first 12 years, they were not as dominant as Koufax was during his 12 year career. If had pitched 5 more years, it wouldn't even be a question, it would be a given.

    But he pitched in a pitchers park, in a true pitching era. That is a major factor in his performance. His best ERA plus was still .70 below Maddux's 2 best seasons

  12. #11
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Koufax and it's not even close.

    No one was as unhittable as him during his six year dominance.

    129-47 W-L 2.19 ERA

    156 ERA+ 0.970 WHIP 0.6 HR/9 2.3 BB/9 9.4 K/9 4.16 K/BB

    And his career numbers are still great.

    165-87 W-L 2.76 ERA

    131 ERA+ 1.106 WHIP 0.8 HR/9 3.2 BB/9 9.3 K/9 2.93 K/BB

    And this was his final year before he retired due to injury.

    27-9 W-L 1.73 ERA 41 GS 27 CG 190 ERA+ 5 Shutouts 317 K's

    He also was one of the greatest post season pitchers ever.

    What's key is that if you look at anyone else's stats after their first 12 years, they were not as dominant as Koufax was during his 12 year career. If had pitched 5 more years, it wouldn't even be a question, it would be a given.
    Pedro Martinez laughs at Sandy Koufax. From 1997-2003 he posted this line:
    Code:
    Year  	W  	L  	ERA  	IP  	H  	BB  	SO  	BF  	ERA+  	WHIP  	B%	K%	SO/BB
    97-03 	118	36	2.20	1408	1009	315	1761	5542	213	0.94	5.68%	31.78%	5.59
    Pedro isn't the best pitcher ever because some guys had better careers. But no one dominated the game like he did from 1997-2003. That stretch is the best anyone has ever done in the game to my knowledge. Toss in that it came in a hitters era while in the AL (6 of those 7 came in Boston, 1 in Montreal).

  13. #12
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    I can't consider any pitcher from the mid 70's on the greatest pitcher ever. 5 man rotations, relievers and closers have changed the game where it simply is easier to be a starter these days. Yeah, there are better hitters, but that can't make up the grind that earlier pitchers had to endure.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #13
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    I can't consider any pitcher from the mid 70's on the greatest pitcher ever. 5 man rotations, relievers and closers have changed the game where it simply is easier to be a starter these days. Yeah, there are better hitters, but that can't make up the grind that earlier pitchers had to endure.
    Pedro put up better numbers in the steroids era than Koufax did in a pitchers era. I don't care what a bullpen or 5 man rotation does, what Pedro did was more impressive than Koufax did. Without an ounce of doubt in my mind.

  15. #14
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    Yeah I was gonna say Pedro Martinez as well. Randy Johnson deserves strong consideration too, IMO.

  16. #15
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest Living Pitcher

    For my money, the best pitcher I ever saw was Nolan Ryan.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!


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